[Info] NIB Horses

By Retired breeder, 17th November 2009 23:20:05
208
It's about time the NIB breeders had their own corner of the world default smiley ;)

Curious about NIB horses? Want to know what a NIB horse is? You've come to the right place!

What is this topic for? NIB enthusiasts to find each other and help one another progress in their respective games.
Otherwise, you may use this topic to help others learn about NIBs, share your experience, and find friends that breed NIBs default smiley :)

Please do not use this topic for advertising horses for sale.

The NIB FAQ:

What is a NIB horse?
A NIB horse is a horse that is not inbred; every horse in its pedigree appears only once (with the exception of Ouranos and Gaia). Horses with "Horse Disappeared" in their pedigree are generally not accepted by NIB breeders unless the horses in question were bought before the horses disappeared and have verifiable pedigrees.

Are there green star NIB horses?
These horses have lower GP than green stars and other top horses, as not inbreeding limits the breeding availability and is slower to progress than breeding brothers to sisters and so forth.
**Misabel edit: The first Green star NIB horse was created on February 21, 2011 - a 6th generation Connemara pony with a star in stamina. He was the end result of a lot of hard work and effort, but now that some dedicated breeders have shown it can be done, we all have something to shoot for!

Are NIB horses considered better than green stars or inbred horses?
Goodness, no! Nobody here is attempting to make that claim. Just like the Zero GP horses, these players choose to play the game in their own challenging way.

How can I get involved with NIB breeding?
It's simple! Start by purchasing a few foundation horses, or horses whose pedigrees can be tracked down and verified as non-inbred. Then carefully breed them to create foals with good GP's and skills that are not inbred!


- Current Top GPs for NIB Horses:
(bred with the *original foundies* who had 350-351.2 GP)

Akhal-Teke: 433.29 (2*)
Appaloosa: 592.04 (10*) 6th Gen
Arabians : 847.17 (31*) 3rd Gen
Argentinean Criollo: 534.37 (7*) 1st Gen
Barbs: 392.93 (1*)
Brumbies: 441.30 (2*)
Canadian: 710.75 (18*) 2nd gen
Curly : 897.50 (33*) 3rd Gen
Donkeys: 300.42
Friesian : 507.78 (6*) 2nd Gen
Gypsy Vanner: 565.03 (9*)
Hackneys: 608.80 (11*) 2nd Gen
Hanoverians: 618.73 (12*)
Holsteiner: 584.14 (11*) 1st gen
Icelandic Horse: 431.19 (1*)
Irish Hunters: 452.22 (2*)
Knabstrupper: 564.89 (8*) 1st gen
KWPN: 414.32 (1*)
Lipizzans: 451.15 (2*)
Lusitanos: 558.72 (10*)
Marwari: 551.66 (8*) 1st gen
Morgans: 411.95 (1*)
Mustangs: 419.50 (1*)
Nokota : 427.57 (2*)
Paints: 461.44 (2*)
Peruvian Paso: 441.91 (2*)
Purebred Spanish Horse : 509.03 (6*) 1st gen
Quarter Horse: 450.30 (2*)
Russian Don: 636.94 (13*)
Shagya Arabian : 767.55 (25*) 5th gen
Standardbreds: 469.76 (3*)
Tennessee Walkers: 378.92 (1*)
Thoroughbred: 1086.54 (52*) 7th Gen
Trakhener: 432.77 (1*)

Australian Pony: 581.44 (9*) 1st gen
Chincoteague Pony : 575.97 (8*) 1st gen
Connemaras: 440.00 (2*)
Fjords: 447.42 (1*)
Haflingers: 496.41 (4*)
Highland Pony: 409.22
Newfoundlands: 417.87 (1*)
Quarter Pony: 477.27 (4*)
Shetland : 591.53 (11*) 1st gen
Welsh: 415.59 (1*)

Percherons: 503.74 (3*)
Shires: 461.15 (2*)
Drum horse: 1911.21 (134*)

- Current Top GPs for NIB Horses:
(bred with the *'new' foundies* who have the higher GP)

Barb : 5010.37 (445*) 2nd gen
Camargue : 4944.16 (438*) 2nd Gen
Canadians: 4019.57 (346*) 3rd gen
Curlys: 4480.67 (391*)
Hanoverian: 5510.41 (494*) 1st Gen
Holsteiner: 4627.18 (405*) 1st Gen
Knabstruppers: 3611.72
Finnish : 7001.13 (*642*) 1st gen
French Trotter: 5674.95 (511*) 2nd gen
Friesian: 4608.48 (404*) 2nd Gen
Lustiano : 4977.80 (441*) 1st gen
Mangalarga Marchador: 7417.82 (685*) 4th gen
Marwari : 5409.48 (484*) 1st Gen
Nokotas: 5283.03 (471*) 3rd Gen
Paint Horse: 3094.08 (252*)
Purebred Spanish Horse : 6045.91 5th gen
Quarter Horse: 3104.63 (253*)
Russian Don: 6747.60 (617*) 1st Gen

Kerry Bog: 3892.85 (332*)
Newfoundland Pony: 6955.84 (639*) 1gen
Welsh: 6844.92 (627*) 2nd Gen

Ban'ei: 7638.35 (707*) 3rd gen
Drum Horse : 2378.86 (181*) 5th Gen
Percheron: 5508.49 (494*) 1st Gen
Shire : 5067.74 (451*) 2nd Gen


Rivenwood's update schedule:
Sundays: Players breeding non-inbred horses may post the GPs of the horses they think are amongst the highest in the breed in this topic. Complete details should include everything listed in the form below. **Please DO NOT Submit GPs for rankings EXCEPT on Sunday!**
Misabel will post the latest high GP's for NIB horses in each breed from the Sunday submissions. Horses will not be named

Please submit your entry to the current high NIB GP using the following format in a post. It is important you use this exact format so Misabel can locate your post easily, or your submission may be missed:

My NIB GP Entry
Horse's Name:
Horse's Breed (purebreds only please):
Current GP:
Link to the Horse's Page:
 
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By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 02:17:21
isabella - This thread is for folks who do not breed related horses. I doubt you will have much luck finding a 19* stallion in a group of folks who've not yet achieved one green star for their NIB horses. You might want to post this in the Reproduction or Negotiation forum. Thank you default smiley :)
By tahnee, 5th January 2010 04:09:24
I have several Foundations just sitting on my account I will post a list of them below. They are not actively for sale but if you need more stock im sure we can work something out default smiley ;)

Also after not playing for sometime I have just found majority of my breeding stock has Disappeared howrses in their lines. So I am after /any/ Foundation stock for Australian Ponies. All reasonable offers will be accepted


Breed : Russian Don Horse Age : 6 months
Species : Horse Height : 12.0 hands
Sex : male Weight : 338.8 pounds
Coat: Chestnut Born on: 2009-07-01

Breed : Barb Age : 2 months
Species : Horse Height : 9.2 hands
Sex : female Weight : 244.2 pounds
Coat: Black Born on: 2009-08-31

Breed : Brumby Age : 8 months
Species : Horse Height : 12.3 hands
Sex : male Weight : 418 pounds
Coat: Black Born on: 2009-08-18

Breed : Marwari Age : 2 months
Species : Horse Height : 9.1 hands
Sex : female Weight : 233.2 pounds
Coat: Cherry bay Born on: 2009-08-24

Breed : Morgan Age : 6 months
Species : Horse Height : 11.2 hands
Sex : male Weight : 345.4 pounds
Coat: Cherry bay Born on: 2009-09-14

Breed : Shetland Age : 6 months
Species : Pony Height : 7.0 hands
Sex : female Weight : 209 pounds
Coat: Gray Born on: 2009-09-21
tahnee
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By tigrelily, 5th January 2010 06:27:32
I am a bit confused on what is really a foundation horse, and a 1st gen horse. I've been running with the assumption that any horse with Gaia and Ouranos as parents was a foundation horse and it's offspring as a 1st gen horse. I'm seeing some players do it differently. Is there an "official" definition of these terms? Thanks!
tigrelily
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By tigrelily, 5th January 2010 06:32:02
One more question.

What do you call the offspring of 2 different generation parents? A 1and a half gen?

Example:
Cindy's father is a foundation horse with the original horses as grandparents.
Cindy's mother has foundation horses for grandparents and the original horses for great-grandparents. What does that make Cindy?
tigrelily
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By Forest Queen, 5th January 2010 06:32:54
There is no 'official' def. for the terms though Riven offered to do some sort of poll to confirm what should be the norm. I consider my foundations AS first generations then go up from there, their offspring being 2nd gen and so on. That is how I have just always done it and may never end up transitioning into the other terms if that is what everyone decides to be the 'official' ruling.

default smiley (y)
Forest Queen
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By Forest Queen, 5th January 2010 06:33:40
I do not have names for them other than NIB. I do not cross horses like that nor do I purchase lines like that unless they are gelded
Forest Queen
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By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 10:22:58
I'm the opposite to Forest Queen - foals bred from two foundation parents are the ones I call 1st gen. I suppose it can be confusing to those looking to buy NIB horses, but it's always best to check the family tree when buying NIBs anyway, so you can always have a look and see for yourself how far back the tree goes. I'm not actually sure which method of naming is the most common, so a poll would be interesting - but like FQ, I'm not sure I'd change my ways as I incorporate generation into mu naming scheme.
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 13:53:55
I call the foundies 1st gen, and I do call ones from mixed gens (2nd gen & 3rd gen) 2 1/2 gen like you said tigrelily default smiley :)
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 16:17:34
Well, I'm doing the same as Inner Chorus.

My 1st generation are the offspring of my foundations. It makes sense to me since I always add the letter F at the end of the name of a foundation horse. And 1G for for my 1st generations.

I also have one of those mixed generations sitting, but haven't yet decided whether to use or notdefault smiley ;)
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 17:09:27
I have noticed others mention this a couple times, that getting the 20 wins needed for 100 Blup is a PITA for Foundation and Low GP horses.

What is the highest possible blup for a horse without 20 wins? Lets say 0 wins at all.
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 17:10:28
Sounds like our naming schemes are similar, too - I have a letter/number for generation at the end of my NIBs' names, too. I also incorporate how many GP points above the base of 350 they are.

I'm very into my NIB project again at the moment - now BLUPing a first gen. mare (who will later become a stallion, heh). I love Nyx Packs. But I shouldn't let myself get used to using them because I can't afford to get one every time!
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 17:11:05
I think 70 BLUP is what you'll get with no wins.
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 17:13:09
Alright, 70? That kind of sucks.

I had read that the points needed for 100 blup were percentage based, I just couldn't remember what they were exactly.

Something like..

30% for being 10 years old
30% Training
20% Wins
30% Rides

Does that sound right? Or does somebody know the breakdown off the top of their head?
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 17:14:56
I'm just going from Divines, which arrive fully bolded so no gain from rides, training or comps - they show as 100 BLUP but drop to 70 after the first day due to needing wins. I could be misremembering this, though, so it's worth checking. I'll see if I can track down anything definite by hunting around EC forums etc.
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 17:19:18
Here's what I found for the breakdown of BLUP from -100 to +100:

You get 130 points for completed training in your best three skills, this includes rides and comps., the skill must go bold before this requirement is met.

40 points for reaching the age of 10

30 points for winning 20 competitions

(Taken from horsegazer's EC forum).

So, you would be stuck at 70 without wins. It's not impossible to get wins, though - it helps if you have foal or young horse and access to a couple of skill boost items, the only horses I really struggle with are older foundies (so 8+) with either no training done or lots of training done in the wrong skills. I just don't buy those anymore, though.
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 17:22:55
Are there any guides or forums I can access that may have information on training and getting wins on these horses. It is rather discouraging that none of my NIBs have won a race. Although I am still fairly new to this, so I should learn to be more patient as well.
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 17:23:36
Oh, and thank you very much for the detailed information you looked up. ^_^

-sorry for the double post btw
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 17:32:20
No problem! [url=http://www.howrse.com/centre/forum/sujet?id=53026&sujet=1932736750]This (wordweasel2's Guide to BLUPing) is what I use with all my foundies - works best with young horses or ideally those trained from foals. I have used it on both my newfies and arabians, I know word used it on her standies and canadians but it should work for any breed.

The principles also apply to horses that already have some training: get speed and dressage bolded and enter low-level trot, gallop and jump comps. Then bold jump and progress to low-level cross-country (although with a tricky horse it might be worth pausing the jump training and sticking with races and show jumping until you know you have your wins, especially if stamina has already been trained).
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 17:33:03
Whoops, messed up the link there...

To make it clickable: BLUPing Guide.
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 17:35:16
This is great, thank you very much!
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 17:45:00
With regard to the post about naming generations, I class Foundations as Foundations, and their offspring as 1G and so on. In reference to mixed generations, i dont specifiacally call them anything and have a sepparate Affix for them.
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 17:51:59
If anyone is needing an Arabian NiB, I just put a few coverings up for this guy.

Feel free to PM me if you want to do a private covering. All of them will be 200e. I think I can do about 3 or 4 a day without tiring him out too much.
By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 17:52:21
If I have a foal of mixed gens, I just name both gens when selling or whatever.

Example: If the foal's dam is a 1st gen, and the sire a 3rd gen, I call it a 2nd/4th gen. Then, whoever's buying or breeding can decide for themselves what to call it.

I call my foundations foundies, and their foals 1st gen.
By foxy3000123, 5th January 2010 17:53:06
My foundie mare has to get two more wins, but she just won't! default smiley (lol) She's coming second in everything. I've had her since a foal, as she's a paint Im entering her in trot, but it's not working. Never mind, I'm sure she'll get them soon. default smiley :d
foxy3000123
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By Retired breeder, 5th January 2010 18:00:05
I'm looking for some foundation Morgans under 6 months. I need 4 males and 3 females. I'm bidding on one female in the auctions, and I've pmed you, tahnee about a colt, but I'm still on the lookout for a few more if anyone is selling. =)
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