[Info] NIB Horses

By Retired breeder, 17th November 2009 23:20:05
208
It's about time the NIB breeders had their own corner of the world default smiley ;)

Curious about NIB horses? Want to know what a NIB horse is? You've come to the right place!

What is this topic for? NIB enthusiasts to find each other and help one another progress in their respective games.
Otherwise, you may use this topic to help others learn about NIBs, share your experience, and find friends that breed NIBs default smiley :)

Please do not use this topic for advertising horses for sale.

The NIB FAQ:

What is a NIB horse?
A NIB horse is a horse that is not inbred; every horse in its pedigree appears only once (with the exception of Ouranos and Gaia). Horses with "Horse Disappeared" in their pedigree are generally not accepted by NIB breeders unless the horses in question were bought before the horses disappeared and have verifiable pedigrees.

Are there green star NIB horses?
These horses have lower GP than green stars and other top horses, as not inbreeding limits the breeding availability and is slower to progress than breeding brothers to sisters and so forth.
**Misabel edit: The first Green star NIB horse was created on February 21, 2011 - a 6th generation Connemara pony with a star in stamina. He was the end result of a lot of hard work and effort, but now that some dedicated breeders have shown it can be done, we all have something to shoot for!

Are NIB horses considered better than green stars or inbred horses?
Goodness, no! Nobody here is attempting to make that claim. Just like the Zero GP horses, these players choose to play the game in their own challenging way.

How can I get involved with NIB breeding?
It's simple! Start by purchasing a few foundation horses, or horses whose pedigrees can be tracked down and verified as non-inbred. Then carefully breed them to create foals with good GP's and skills that are not inbred!


- Current Top GPs for NIB Horses:
(bred with the *original foundies* who had 350-351.2 GP)

Akhal-Teke: 433.29 (2*)
Appaloosa: 592.04 (10*) 6th Gen
Arabians : 847.17 (31*) 3rd Gen
Argentinean Criollo: 534.37 (7*) 1st Gen
Barbs: 392.93 (1*)
Brumbies: 441.30 (2*)
Canadian: 710.75 (18*) 2nd gen
Curly : 897.50 (33*) 3rd Gen
Donkeys: 300.42
Friesian : 507.78 (6*) 2nd Gen
Gypsy Vanner: 565.03 (9*)
Hackneys: 608.80 (11*) 2nd Gen
Hanoverians: 618.73 (12*)
Holsteiner: 584.14 (11*) 1st gen
Icelandic Horse: 431.19 (1*)
Irish Hunters: 452.22 (2*)
Knabstrupper: 564.89 (8*) 1st gen
KWPN: 414.32 (1*)
Lipizzans: 451.15 (2*)
Lusitanos: 558.72 (10*)
Marwari: 551.66 (8*) 1st gen
Morgans: 411.95 (1*)
Mustangs: 419.50 (1*)
Nokota : 427.57 (2*)
Paints: 461.44 (2*)
Peruvian Paso: 441.91 (2*)
Purebred Spanish Horse : 509.03 (6*) 1st gen
Quarter Horse: 450.30 (2*)
Russian Don: 636.94 (13*)
Shagya Arabian : 767.55 (25*) 5th gen
Standardbreds: 469.76 (3*)
Tennessee Walkers: 378.92 (1*)
Thoroughbred: 1086.54 (52*) 7th Gen
Trakhener: 432.77 (1*)

Australian Pony: 581.44 (9*) 1st gen
Chincoteague Pony : 575.97 (8*) 1st gen
Connemaras: 440.00 (2*)
Fjords: 447.42 (1*)
Haflingers: 496.41 (4*)
Highland Pony: 409.22
Newfoundlands: 417.87 (1*)
Quarter Pony: 477.27 (4*)
Shetland : 591.53 (11*) 1st gen
Welsh: 415.59 (1*)

Percherons: 503.74 (3*)
Shires: 461.15 (2*)
Drum horse: 1911.21 (134*)

- Current Top GPs for NIB Horses:
(bred with the *'new' foundies* who have the higher GP)

Barb : 5010.37 (445*) 2nd gen
Camargue : 4944.16 (438*) 2nd Gen
Canadians: 4019.57 (346*) 3rd gen
Curlys: 4480.67 (391*)
Hanoverian: 5510.41 (494*) 1st Gen
Holsteiner: 4627.18 (405*) 1st Gen
Knabstruppers: 3611.72
Finnish : 7001.13 (*642*) 1st gen
French Trotter: 5674.95 (511*) 2nd gen
Friesian: 4608.48 (404*) 2nd Gen
Lustiano : 4977.80 (441*) 1st gen
Mangalarga Marchador: 7417.82 (685*) 4th gen
Marwari : 5409.48 (484*) 1st Gen
Nokotas: 5283.03 (471*) 3rd Gen
Paint Horse: 3094.08 (252*)
Purebred Spanish Horse : 6045.91 5th gen
Quarter Horse: 3104.63 (253*)
Russian Don: 6747.60 (617*) 1st Gen

Kerry Bog: 3892.85 (332*)
Newfoundland Pony: 6955.84 (639*) 1gen
Welsh: 6844.92 (627*) 2nd Gen

Ban'ei: 7638.35 (707*) 3rd gen
Drum Horse : 2378.86 (181*) 5th Gen
Percheron: 5508.49 (494*) 1st Gen
Shire : 5067.74 (451*) 2nd Gen


Rivenwood's update schedule:
Sundays: Players breeding non-inbred horses may post the GPs of the horses they think are amongst the highest in the breed in this topic. Complete details should include everything listed in the form below. **Please DO NOT Submit GPs for rankings EXCEPT on Sunday!**
Misabel will post the latest high GP's for NIB horses in each breed from the Sunday submissions. Horses will not be named

Please submit your entry to the current high NIB GP using the following format in a post. It is important you use this exact format so Misabel can locate your post easily, or your submission may be missed:

My NIB GP Entry
Horse's Name:
Horse's Breed (purebreds only please):
Current GP:
Link to the Horse's Page:
 
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By Misabel, 15th September 2019 20:27:39
2
Okay, so I finally had a chance to go through everyone's postings, and gather up the new GPs. I've sent them off to a mod and the list should be updated soon.

Also there's this guy:
My NIB GP Entry
Horse's Name: Perlesvaus
Horse's Breed : Thoroughbred
Current GP: 757.06 (22*)
Link to the Horse's Page: https://www.howrse.com/elevage/fiche/?id=60282171

Azhure, a lot of the horses you put up are foundies, which do not count for the rankings - the horses submitted have to have been bred by a player. default smiley ;)

If you're working with rolling gain stock, be aware that the game will be generating foundies with GPs higher than your best horses every day (unless you breed super-fast). Does that defeat the purpose of ranking horses by GP? Well, if you ask me, yes. It's not a reliable measure of one's progress as a breeder; Someone using RG horses can have new top rankings every week just by breeding the same foundie pair over and over, since lower generations have higher gains.

Of course, other breeders may feel differently, and I will keep posting GPs as long as people want me to; But if those who are working RGs want to switch things up and include a different statistic (number of generations, maybe?), I'd be happy to do that. I'm one of the stubborn ones still plugging away with OG foundies (and GP's getting less relevant for us, too; The 22* I just posted is only a 4th gen), so I will leave it to the RG breeders to decide what they want to do.
Misabel
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By Twinjodi, 15th September 2019 21:49:25
Misabel as one of the mostly RG breeders/players in general I think that is a great idea to have the generation behind it as well as the starrage.

For example the lowest foundation French Trotter 4110 is a 354*. The newest/highest foundation that I have is French Trotter 4867 which is a 429*. A HUGE gap!

My highest First generation (of event frenchies) for at this point is a 4227.49 a 366*. Maybe if this isn't a ton of work, have the Rolling gains divided into the Rolling Gains Releases- Event Horses, and Rolling Gains - Other ((To include Pastry, new players, other events,etc)) that are higher than the original ones?

In this case I don't know if it would also be helpful to have their release GPs in () behind the breed as well so:
Barbs (4848-4888)
Camargues (4746-4788)
French Trotters (4110-4128)
Holsteiners (4457-4499)

Barbs (4889+)
Camargues (4789+)
French Trotters (4129+)
Holsteiners (4500+)


Or possibly not even count the rolling gains that aren't released in a huge chunk?

My partner Shisei and I were actually talking about it today and we're going to plan on in-cooperating (at this time) our higher GP foundations into the generation that they will be matching the most so it doesn't skew with the GP rankings here.


My NIB GP Entry
Horse's Name: 2G - Anty M 4295.00
Horse's Breed (purebreds only please): French Trotter
Current GP: 4295.00 (2nd Generation 373*)
Link to the Horse's Page:://www.howrse.com/elevage/fiche/?id=60508271
Twinjodi
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By tigrelily, 16th September 2019 02:31:52
"If you're working with rolling gain stock, be aware that the game will be generating foundies with GPs higher than your best horses every day (unless you breed super-fast). Does that defeat the purpose of ranking horses by GP? Well, if you ask me, yes. It's not a reliable measure of one's progress as a breeder; Someone using RG horses can have new top rankings every week just by breeding the same foundie pair over and over, since lower generations have higher gains."

Sorry, I'm "old school" and see the game catering to the newer players more and more. I've been with the game 12 years and have seen many changes and spent lots of money on passes. I don't think it's fair what howrse is doing to foundies, RG or particularly OG. (I am not pleased with howrse on their dealing with Original Foundation horses at all.) Here's a thought, howrse could have a branch of the game for the Originals. No high gp horses allowed, unless bred up from foundations. Like I said, just a thought.



"But if those who are working RGs want to switch things up and include a different statistic (number of generations, maybe?), I'd be happy to do that. I'm one of the stubborn ones still plugging away with OG foundies (and GP's getting less relevant for us, too; The 22* I just posted is only a 4th gen), so I will leave it to the RG breeders to decide what they want to do."

That would help differentiate between the groups. Although, I do see confusion ahead with the RGs.
tigrelily
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By Shisei, 16th September 2019 12:08:19
There's a little problem with the Generations as well as with the highest GP if it comes to RG foundies.

There are many different ways to get to a goal, some take a lot of time and effort and some don't.

I mean, if we go by most generations, we could just go FoundiexFoundie - G1xFoundie - G2x Foundie and have a long tree of many generations in no time and with mostly nearly no GP gain.

The second way is to go for the GP gain, so we'd breed Foundies to G1 etc. and then start to include high GP Foundies when the low ones have reached them - or just get two new ones and beat everyone who ever breed any NIB of that breed before.

The third possibility is to only count even generations - but that might look funny with all the different GPs, too. And since a NIB has always been a NIB, even if they have been breed differently, it wouldn't be fair in my opinion and surely take some of the creativity out of NIBling.

So if anyone has a solution that would work for everyone and could be used for the NIB ranking, I'd love to hear it, since Twinjodi and I are discussing it ever since the FTs came out and haven't yet found the best course of action.

I guess I'd like it to see generations and GP included and on top of it, if it's even generations or not. So if we can't get it into one ranking, the RGs might need three or four rankings in the end. *thinks*
Shisei
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By Asfridur, 16th September 2019 17:27:45
@Misabel
Congratulations with the new Tb addition!

Thank you bunches for finding that utter muck up I had on my so called 4th gen Shagya default smiley (l)
How on earth that distorted NON old GP mare managed to sneak in and blend with my old GP stock, without me noticing I do not know. Do I want to pull my hear? You bet ya. .. and doing it.

But it's still better the culprit is spotted now and not way later.
I'm currently sorting some pixels to get rid of the messed up ones.


I think it's a great idea if we start listing the generation number also.
Listing the GP and adding a generation number would visualize way more than "just" posting the GP. Especially so when the GP moves as fast as it does..

@Shisei regarding breeding uneven gens, couldn't we "solve" that one by having more lists?

RG - even gens
RG - uneven gens

Old GP - even gens
Old GP - uneven gens

And for those that breed old and new GP's
Call it NIB 0 & RG or something.

Don't know if people will find it too confusting though. But with a little explanation it might be doable?
Asfridur
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By Axel'sMommy, 16th September 2019 17:31:42
Even and uneven gens? I'm confused. I don't think anything needs to change for the old GP horses.
Axel'sMommy
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By Asfridur, 16th September 2019 18:57:21
@Axel'sMommy easy fix then if nobody mixes the old GP's with the new default smiley :)

I just seem to faintly recall that several asked if they could mix the old GP with the new ones? But if we do now have any NIB'ers that mixes them it's totally not needed with any rankings.
Asfridur
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By Shisei, 16th September 2019 19:26:09
@ Axel'sMommy, right, I don't think the old GP Foundies are affected by that in any way, it's purely a RG Foundie problem that would be good to be solved.

@ Asfridur, that's half of what I meant that we might need up to 4 rankings / lists for the RG Foundies to be fair to every sort of RG-NIBling there could be.

RG - even gens - best GP
(can always be obtained by breeding the newest two foundies, so do we really need this one?)
RG - even gens - most generations
RG - uneven gens - best GP
RG - uneven gens - most generations

It's surely a bit more complicated, so I wonder if anyone has a better idea how to make lemonade out of the lemons howrse gave us. *laughs*
Shisei
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By Twinjodi, 16th September 2019 21:07:44
Well maybe here's even a better question, is anyone right now (besides us) even planning on possibly incorporating the non event rolling gain foundations into their original rolling gain stock?

Would anyone even mind of we did incorporate the newer rolling generations in with the original rolling gain stock by way of "rules"?

----
Like dividing like so:

Rolling Gain Stock:
Foundations with the new higher GP.

~Original Rolling Gain Horses - These horses were either the original rolling gain horse (GPs listed behind breeds) or descended from these horses. Newer Rolling gain foundations are only accepted into this category if they breed with a matching "hundred" generational foal. I.E. A 4600's rolling gain foundation can only breed with a generational foal of the 4600's.

~Rolling Gain Horses - This listing is comprised of mixing any of the Rolling Gain foundations.

^^^ This one would only be the one that be crazy changing all of the time.
-----

I think that might be the simplest solution. But all I think should still be listed by starrage and generation as well. The last category might be the most difficult but I don't forsee so many people actually finding enough Rolling Gain non event foundations for it to matter truly.

I do get what Misabel said about you can breed the foundation together with the foundation to have a higher foal later on but this doesn't seem to really be an issue (at least for me) with any of the original rolling gain horses. We're getting about the same GPs from foals as when they first came out (almost a year ago) as we're still working through our foundation stock for 1st Generations.
Twinjodi
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By Yankee Lady, 17th September 2019 04:31:33
Personally I think trying to mix OG and RG together isn't something that would be a good idea. At least not for the highest GP listing. It would just get too complicated and not fair to put all of that extra work on Misabel.

But like I said, that is just my own opinion. Think we should keep the too apart, be a purer NIB breeding. You'd have to have records of how many generations were mixed, what generations were mixed (from foundations on up or just in higher generations) and just be a record keeping nightmare.

Isn't regular NIB record keeping hard enough?
Yankee Lady
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By Retired breeder, 17th September 2019 18:28:14
"Personally I think trying to mix OG and RG together isn't something that would be a good idea."

I, for one, agree with Yankee Lady on this aspect. They're almost like two seperate breeds
By Retired breeder, 17th September 2019 21:20:11
Okay, so I would like to post a link for my mare for you guys to see because I have some questions on her but for the life of me, I cannot figure out how or where to find the link for the horse! Can you help me?
By BRM, 17th September 2019 21:47:48


Go to your profile page, click the horse, copy the link
BRM
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By Retired breeder, 17th September 2019 22:01:44
https://www.howrse.com/elevage/fiche/?id=59716197

Thank you MoonRider1691!

K, so my question if with this mare, going back through her pedigree, the sire Snoopy is showing GP of 3550, which I have not seen that yet. Is he OG or RG? I was under the impression that for the Ouranos/Gaia foals, the RG started around 4827 (+/-) for GP and OG was 350, is this not correct?
Thank you
By Twinjodi, 17th September 2019 23:18:25
Since Snoopy is a Quarter Horse, the original foundations of those were 350-351.2, and anything after that would be considered a rolling gain when both parents would be Ouranus/Gaia.

To also chime in for anyone thinking of mixing OG/RG horses It's obviously up to you but I think the two should stay separate in rankings as well.
Twinjodi
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By Yankee Lady, 18th September 2019 03:29:58
The GP of RG foundations is constantly going up as it is linked with the top GP horses of that breed. Obviously Snoopy was an earlier RG foundation when the GPs were lower.
Yankee Lady
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By Asfridur, 18th September 2019 14:51:34
So no mixing low and RG foundations.

How about a special ranking for unis? Is that something that would make sense or do we not have any breeders that have small armies of them?
Asfridur
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By Yankee Lady, 19th September 2019 00:01:08
I am not sure anyone is trying to NIB unicorns. Probably because it is next to impossible to find foundation unis, at least the OG ones.

It is fairly difficult and chancy to breed unis (I breed non-NIB Arab unis myself) and get good results only because I use Hestia's Gifts when I breed which guarantee uni foals. For regular breeding you can only do 2 a day, and even then you only have a 1 in 5 chance of getting an uni foal. That is not 1 in 5 breedings you will get an uni foal, that is EACH time you breed you can only get a 20% chance of getting an uni foal.

And, no, you can't buy or exchange for Hestia's Gifts. They are only available either through special promotions or from certain divines. I am lucky enough to have 2 such divines so I can get them fairly often. And those divines are never for sale, only available through special promotions (got mine years ago -- they are members of the Wind family of divines and I don't know if they have ever been offered another time).
Yankee Lady
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By Shisei, 19th September 2019 07:45:03
If everything concerning rankings seems too hard or senseless to do, we could as well go with projects instead of rankings. It's just an idea to adapt to all the different ways of breeding there might be for NIBs now.

We leave the original foundies untouched, since that ranking system still seem to work for them somehow (unless they'd like to change something).

Everyone else states their projects and get's listed - and after half a year or a year of inactivity they drop out of the list again.

The entry for all not OG foundie projects might look somehow like that:

My NIB-Project Entry
Date:
Horse's Name:
Horse's Breed:
Purebreed, mix and/or unicorn:
Current GP:
Current generation:
Even or uneven generations:
RG or RG x OG:
Link to the Horse's Page:
Additional notes (not listed):
Shisei
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By Storms Ransome, 20th September 2019 06:23:37
Are they updating the rankings again? I've stopped playing because I can't seem to get mine up there anymore :/

Storm
Storms Ransome
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By Asfridur, 20th September 2019 18:29:21
1
@Yankee Lady it's a real shame about the unis. But I see what your saying.

@Shisei - like that idea of yours. Not sure about deleting entries if the breeder stops playing or entering new NIB's. It is nice to see what GP or gens you have to "beat" - how ever if the majority of NIB'ers agree with you. Then no biggie.

You have posted "mix" not entirely sure what you mean by that? Mixed breeds or?

@Storms Ransome looks like they will get updated again. The question remains what kind of rankings we want. Especially since he GP moves so fast. So that's the reason we're talking about what would make sense to list.
Asfridur
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By Shisei, 20th September 2019 20:18:38
@ Asfridur

Thanks! Deleting entries would keep the list a bit smaller and we wouldn't have inactive people on it, so it's always kind of up to date, but if it's no problem to list everyone forever I wouldn't mind, for sure. But well, it'll be a very long list then.

Yes, it's of course mixed breeds, NIBs can be mixed breeds, so why not give them a place to show their project, too.

So is it possible and agreeable? Maybe we can all try to reach out to our NIB breeding friends and ask them to give some opinions and ideas, too?
Shisei
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By Axel'sMommy, 21st September 2019 04:48:09
Jennifer - OG only refers to foundations with GP's of 350-351.2. All others are RG. There are some RG breeds that start below 1000 GP. It's all over the place honestly.

Yankee Lady - True for the most part however, I do breed NIB Hano Uni's as part of my project. The Hano in the rankings above is a Uni.

Shisei - There's a cross breeding forum. As for NIB cross breeding, keeping track of the highest GP of every cross would be near impossible as there are so many different combinations.


As for the way RG breeding goes, phew.... Any thoughts I had of trying it with a new breed has gone out the window default smiley xd
Axel'sMommy
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By WildFriesian, 23rd September 2019 12:55:52
Hey guys!

I'm new to the NIB community and looking to get started with some Shags and then move to QHs. Anyone with any advice or horses of those breeds for sale PM me!

Thanks
~FC
WildFriesian
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By Retired breeder, 23rd September 2019 21:36:24
Welcome Final Countdown, to the wonderful world of NIB default smiley :-))
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