[Info] NIB Horses

By Retired breeder, 17th November 2009 23:20:05
208
It's about time the NIB breeders had their own corner of the world default smiley ;)

Curious about NIB horses? Want to know what a NIB horse is? You've come to the right place!

What is this topic for? NIB enthusiasts to find each other and help one another progress in their respective games.
Otherwise, you may use this topic to help others learn about NIBs, share your experience, and find friends that breed NIBs default smiley :)

Please do not use this topic for advertising horses for sale.

The NIB FAQ:

What is a NIB horse?
A NIB horse is a horse that is not inbred; every horse in its pedigree appears only once (with the exception of Ouranos and Gaia). Horses with "Horse Disappeared" in their pedigree are generally not accepted by NIB breeders unless the horses in question were bought before the horses disappeared and have verifiable pedigrees.

Are there green star NIB horses?
These horses have lower GP than green stars and other top horses, as not inbreeding limits the breeding availability and is slower to progress than breeding brothers to sisters and so forth.
**Misabel edit: The first Green star NIB horse was created on February 21, 2011 - a 6th generation Connemara pony with a star in stamina. He was the end result of a lot of hard work and effort, but now that some dedicated breeders have shown it can be done, we all have something to shoot for!

Are NIB horses considered better than green stars or inbred horses?
Goodness, no! Nobody here is attempting to make that claim. Just like the Zero GP horses, these players choose to play the game in their own challenging way.

How can I get involved with NIB breeding?
It's simple! Start by purchasing a few foundation horses, or horses whose pedigrees can be tracked down and verified as non-inbred. Then carefully breed them to create foals with good GP's and skills that are not inbred!


- Current Top GPs for NIB Horses:
(bred with the *original foundies* who had 350-351.2 GP)

Akhal-Teke: 433.29 (2*)
Appaloosa: 592.04 (10*) 6th Gen
Arabians : 847.17 (31*) 3rd Gen
Argentinean Criollo: 534.37 (7*) 1st Gen
Barbs: 392.93 (1*)
Brumbies: 441.30 (2*)
Canadian: 710.75 (18*) 2nd gen
Curly : 897.50 (33*) 3rd Gen
Donkeys: 300.42
Friesian : 507.78 (6*) 2nd Gen
Gypsy Vanner: 565.03 (9*)
Hackneys: 608.80 (11*) 2nd Gen
Hanoverians: 618.73 (12*)
Holsteiner: 584.14 (11*) 1st gen
Icelandic Horse: 431.19 (1*)
Irish Hunters: 452.22 (2*)
Knabstrupper: 564.89 (8*) 1st gen
KWPN: 414.32 (1*)
Lipizzans: 451.15 (2*)
Lusitanos: 558.72 (10*)
Marwari: 551.66 (8*) 1st gen
Morgans: 411.95 (1*)
Mustangs: 419.50 (1*)
Nokota : 427.57 (2*)
Paints: 461.44 (2*)
Peruvian Paso: 441.91 (2*)
Purebred Spanish Horse : 509.03 (6*) 1st gen
Quarter Horse: 450.30 (2*)
Russian Don: 636.94 (13*)
Shagya Arabian : 767.55 (25*) 5th gen
Standardbreds: 469.76 (3*)
Tennessee Walkers: 378.92 (1*)
Thoroughbred: 1086.54 (52*) 7th Gen
Trakhener: 432.77 (1*)

Australian Pony: 581.44 (9*) 1st gen
Chincoteague Pony : 575.97 (8*) 1st gen
Connemaras: 440.00 (2*)
Fjords: 447.42 (1*)
Haflingers: 496.41 (4*)
Highland Pony: 409.22
Newfoundlands: 417.87 (1*)
Quarter Pony: 477.27 (4*)
Shetland : 591.53 (11*) 1st gen
Welsh: 415.59 (1*)

Percherons: 503.74 (3*)
Shires: 461.15 (2*)
Drum horse: 1911.21 (134*)

- Current Top GPs for NIB Horses:
(bred with the *'new' foundies* who have the higher GP)

Barb : 5010.37 (445*) 2nd gen
Camargue : 4944.16 (438*) 2nd Gen
Canadians: 4019.57 (346*) 3rd gen
Curlys: 4480.67 (391*)
Hanoverian: 5510.41 (494*) 1st Gen
Holsteiner: 4627.18 (405*) 1st Gen
Knabstruppers: 3611.72
Finnish : 7001.13 (*642*) 1st gen
French Trotter: 5674.95 (511*) 2nd gen
Friesian: 4608.48 (404*) 2nd Gen
Lustiano : 4977.80 (441*) 1st gen
Mangalarga Marchador: 7417.82 (685*) 4th gen
Marwari : 5409.48 (484*) 1st Gen
Nokotas: 5283.03 (471*) 3rd Gen
Paint Horse: 3094.08 (252*)
Purebred Spanish Horse : 6045.91 5th gen
Quarter Horse: 3104.63 (253*)
Russian Don: 6747.60 (617*) 1st Gen

Kerry Bog: 3892.85 (332*)
Newfoundland Pony: 6955.84 (639*) 1gen
Welsh: 6844.92 (627*) 2nd Gen

Ban'ei: 7638.35 (707*) 3rd gen
Drum Horse : 2378.86 (181*) 5th Gen
Percheron: 5508.49 (494*) 1st Gen
Shire : 5067.74 (451*) 2nd Gen


Rivenwood's update schedule:
Sundays: Players breeding non-inbred horses may post the GPs of the horses they think are amongst the highest in the breed in this topic. Complete details should include everything listed in the form below. **Please DO NOT Submit GPs for rankings EXCEPT on Sunday!**
Misabel will post the latest high GP's for NIB horses in each breed from the Sunday submissions. Horses will not be named

Please submit your entry to the current high NIB GP using the following format in a post. It is important you use this exact format so Misabel can locate your post easily, or your submission may be missed:

My NIB GP Entry
Horse's Name:
Horse's Breed (purebreds only please):
Current GP:
Link to the Horse's Page:
 
Go to page:
By Asfridur, 12th March 2017 19:21:27
Gawd old age syndrome and not enough sleep default smiley (lol)

As you can see IBS is quite a bit lower on Atallah (59.13) compared to Amran (83.35).
And the GP difference is quite amazing

And congratulations with the uni foal Axel'sMommy.

In all my breeding the Shagya, I have discovered that the GP on the foals is higher when both parents are roughly at the same BLUP.

How ever their GP is all over the place. Lowest first gen I have is 387ish and the highest 425ish. Back in the old days before the change, that would have driven me mental.
Soon one of my first gen will have higher GP than my current highest second gen default smiley :(
Asfridur
  • Posted messages: 9,768
  • Karma: 10 points
By Asfridur, 12th March 2017 19:32:27
...sorry triple posting.... so since that is the case, I'm now just going to slowly blup and breed the foundies, while working the odd pair of first gens.
It's pretty much pointless to even try to go for 100 BLUP. Heck it's impossible on some of the foundies I have.
So 75+ it will be on those. And if I cannot reach that, I will have to settle for 70+.

I just wonder how long it will be before I have to settle for 70+ on first, second etc gens
Asfridur
  • Posted messages: 9,768
  • Karma: 10 points
By Storms Ransome, 12th March 2017 21:08:33
1
Somebody has to keep me out of the sales. It's too tempting to buy Foundation horses that I cannot really afford! default smiley (lol)

@Misable, I do agree with you about the lack of feeling accomplished when we reach a higher GP with the NIBs. I sure do miss the old days! :/
Storms Ransome
  • Posted messages: 3,150
  • Karma: 10 points
By keepsake, 12th March 2017 21:20:04
default smiley xd I would, but I check sales for orig. Foundy sales myself. Bad idea too, since I've got 4 pairs that are waiting for new homes. But, I'm getting caught up on blupping this week and next week. After that, I could most likely help others get their wins as I tend to get them all in 20 mins or so.

It'll be a few weeks before I have to comp one of my Foundies. Phew. default smiley xd

I miss the days when an orig. Foundy was affordabledefault smiley :(
keepsake
  • Posted messages: 19,585
  • Karma: 10 points
By Retired breeder, 12th March 2017 22:10:11
Does anyone have Foundation Hanoverians that are 351.2 GP? I am looking to add to my herd. All I have are low GP foundations.
By Storms Ransome, 13th March 2017 00:18:47


Me too, Keep! Me too!
Storms Ransome
  • Posted messages: 3,150
  • Karma: 10 points
By Axel'sMommy, 13th March 2017 01:55:25


I do, but since Hanoverians are my life (literally default smiley xd) none are for sale.

However, I would be happy to give you coverings from any of my foundation stallions. I know most NIBer's don't use outside horses (to make sure your line doesn't end up with a disappeared horse) but I'm not going anywhere and neither are my horses lol.

Feel free to PM me.




I agree about the foundations in sales. I also often look at them, but I just cannot justify spending that kind of money on horses that I don't often breed. I do collect foundations and I work with them and plan on breeding them just for fun, but.... yeah.
Axel'sMommy
  • Posted messages: 364
  • Karma: 10 points
By Axel'sMommy, 13th March 2017 01:58:17
1
Oh, one thing I got really excited about, is I found several foundation Shire foals/young horses that were not breeding age yet, and got them for 12,000 each. Now that, I can justify lol.
Axel'sMommy
  • Posted messages: 364
  • Karma: 10 points
By Storms Ransome, 13th March 2017 04:31:38


Wow! Congrats on your find!
Storms Ransome
  • Posted messages: 3,150
  • Karma: 10 points
By Axel'sMommy, 13th March 2017 06:12:47
My NIB GP Entry
Horse's Name: 3G Filly 571.95
Horse's Breed: Hanoverian
Current GP: 571.95
Link to the horse's page: New horse lol

3 covers and no uni's out of this pair yet. Keeping my fingers crossed for next time!
Axel'sMommy
  • Posted messages: 364
  • Karma: 10 points
By Adivinanza, 13th March 2017 16:24:28
2
Greetings NIBlings,
I am new to the NIB game and I have a questions about different breeding theories. In general, must you always breed two NIB horses of strictly the same generation?

Examples below (I hand drew pictures and the links go to those photos because the board doesn't let me format the family trees...).
{The number in each level of the family tree represents the generation of NIByness}

Scenario 1: I assume this is the ideal way to do breeding, to get "whole number" generations.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6ORSUu0MyHBOF96dUtmdDJvcms
so to breed an nth generation NIB horse, you'd need 2^n 0-generation foundies.

BUT. This would result in an enormous amount of horses to get higher generations down the line. And perhaps that is the purest way, but with my equus-poor self and finding certain breeds of foundations difficult, I wonder if the following breeding theories are in any way acceptable:

Scenario 2: Adding pairs of foundations to lineage as you go:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6ORSUu0MyHBYnl1YTRRVl9TUGM
Here, to get the 'n'th generation you'd need 2n foundation horses. Significantly less, then scenario 1.

Scenario 3: The "I really did not plan this ahead of time" and/or the "I have a 10,000e reserve" method.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6ORSUu0MyHBRmpMZ3kxNW9wa1E
For this you would only need n+1 foundations to get the 'n'th generation of NIB babies.

While I personally think scenario 3 is kinda weak, and it seems like Scenario 1 is the ideal-world way to go, I guess I want to know if its a thing to /only/ do Scenario 1, or if the need arises could one throw in a Scenario 2 for a generation if finding foundations is proving difficult for a time?
Is even contemplating using scenario 2 or 3 an abhorrent concept among the purist NIBers?
Adivinanza
  • Posted messages: 11
  • Karma: 10 points
By Storms Ransome, 13th March 2017 21:46:54
I don't know. You can breed whatever generations together that you want. I don't know how it will effect the abililty to post your ranking but many of us breed the way we do to make things less confuisng and to help eliminate future mess ups in our horses trees
Storms Ransome
  • Posted messages: 3,150
  • Karma: 10 points
By Asfridur, 14th March 2017 17:45:52
Interesting Adivinanza

Like Storms Ransome has already posted, it's your project so you can approach it how ever you see fit.

Your non even ideas breeding a pair of foundies, then breed the first gen to a foundie etc, will require less horses obviously. But it would drive me balmy ^

I like to breed even lineages first gens to first gens etc. But if you plan to use the new rolling gain foundies as a base, your overall GP will go up faster, if you always breed what ever generation you have to a higher GP rolling gain foundie horse.

As long as the horse/pony etc is NIB I guess your following the few rules we have here?
I don't know if we can enter such horses in ranking, but it does not say we cannot, so I guess we can? Anybody?
Asfridur
  • Posted messages: 9,768
  • Karma: 10 points
By Axel'sMommy, 14th March 2017 21:57:33
1
Asfridur,

I agree. It isn't against any rules. As long as it is NIB I don't think it matters. It would drive me batty too though lol.

I never thought of breeding a first gen to a newer foundation though. That makes sense. You'd just have to watch more carefully that you don't accidentally inbreed.

As long as well keep the "old" NIB apart from the "new" NIB's, I don't really care what else happens lol.
Axel'sMommy
  • Posted messages: 364
  • Karma: 10 points
By Axel'sMommy, 15th March 2017 04:28:20
Also, I finally got a uni out of the pair I bred for the top GP. This time, both parents had 100 BLUP. What happened? A 23GP DROP....


*head ----> desk*
Axel'sMommy
  • Posted messages: 364
  • Karma: 10 points
By Axel'sMommy, 15th March 2017 05:48:44
Sorry, to triple post. I have to correct myself. One of the parents isn't 10 yet so he's not quite 100 BLUP but was still several points higher than the foal before.
Axel'sMommy
  • Posted messages: 364
  • Karma: 10 points
By Asfridur, 15th March 2017 16:42:24

That is really odd..... unless. Wait a minute - their unis.
That means you could get unlucky even though you get a uni foal. Crazy but still a possibility.
If your unlucky and cover the mare at a time were lover GP unis are covered, you could potentially get a lower GP foal. But 23 that is outrageous default smiley :-x
Asfridur
  • Posted messages: 9,768
  • Karma: 10 points
By Storms Ransome, 16th March 2017 16:32:02
1
I am about to go broke buying foundation horses. haha
Storms Ransome
  • Posted messages: 3,150
  • Karma: 10 points
By Axel'sMommy, 16th March 2017 22:58:43
1
Asfridur,

You are a genius! Thank you! Lol. I can't believe I never realized that!

Storms Ransome,

I've been there before lol
Axel'sMommy
  • Posted messages: 364
  • Karma: 10 points
By Asfridur, 17th March 2017 18:58:07
Your welcome Axel'sMommy default smiley :)

I finally have the 200 foundie Shagya I need. So now I can eventually have a base of 200 first gen Shagya.... will take a long long time. But at least my minds at rest.... even though I've use so much of my reserve it's crazy.

BUT I'm very very happy default smiley (l)
Asfridur
  • Posted messages: 9,768
  • Karma: 10 points
By Asfridur, 17th March 2017 19:03:22
Sorry double post.

got a weird skilled Shagya - she's from a pair of rather broken foundies I picked up a while ago.
But the skills of their offspring is something I've never seen before - how very interesting default smiley :o
Wonder if I should breed the parents one more time to see if I can get another one
Asfridur
  • Posted messages: 9,768
  • Karma: 10 points
By Axel'sMommy, 19th March 2017 07:52:18
2
My NIB GP Entry
Horse's Name: 3G Colt 581.86
Horse's Breed: Hanoverian
Current GP: 581.86
Link to the Horse's Page: Horse
Axel'sMommy
  • Posted messages: 364
  • Karma: 10 points
By Misabel, 24th March 2017 01:29:39
1
Just FYI - a slew of reasonably priced foundies just popped up in the sales. Various breeds, and a mix of old & new GPs. Snagged a couple that were 100% BLUP.

Wasn't someone looking for new GP Standardbreds recently? I saw at least a few in there...
Misabel
  • Posted messages: 20,868
  • Karma: 10 points
By Retired breeder, 24th March 2017 10:42:48
Thanks, Misabel, I - among others - were looking for new GB Standardbreds. How do you have your filters set when searching for them?
By ｆｌｉｃｋｅｒ, 24th March 2017 17:07:44
1
ɴᴏʀᴛʜᴇʀɴᴇʀ, whenever I'm searching for Foundies I select the P. Stone, Passes=0 (usually cause I don't have any), and GP < 3000 or 352, depending on which kind I'm looking for, and then select Purebred.

Last I looked, there were quite a few of the older GP Standardbreds for 60k.
ｆｌｉｃｋｅｒ
  • Posted messages: 745
  • Karma: 10 points
Go to page: