[Info] NIB Horses

By Retired breeder, 17th November 2009 23:20:05
209
It's about time the NIB breeders had their own corner of the world default smiley ;)

Curious about NIB horses? Want to know what a NIB horse is? You've come to the right place!

What is this topic for? NIB enthusiasts to find each other and help one another progress in their respective games.
Otherwise, you may use this topic to help others learn about NIBs, share your experience, and find friends that breed NIBs default smiley :)

Please do not use this topic for advertising horses for sale.

The NIB FAQ:

What is a NIB horse?
A NIB horse is a horse that is not inbred; every horse in its pedigree appears only once (with the exception of Ouranos and Gaia). Horses with "Horse Disappeared" in their pedigree are generally not accepted by NIB breeders unless the horses in question were bought before the horses disappeared and have verifiable pedigrees.

Are there green star NIB horses?
These horses have lower GP than green stars and other top horses, as not inbreeding limits the breeding availability and is slower to progress than breeding brothers to sisters and so forth.
**Misabel edit: The first Green star NIB horse was created on February 21, 2011 - a 6th generation Connemara pony with a star in stamina. He was the end result of a lot of hard work and effort, but now that some dedicated breeders have shown it can be done, we all have something to shoot for!

Are NIB horses considered better than green stars or inbred horses?
Goodness, no! Nobody here is attempting to make that claim. Just like the Zero GP horses, these players choose to play the game in their own challenging way.

How can I get involved with NIB breeding?
It's simple! Start by purchasing a few foundation horses, or horses whose pedigrees can be tracked down and verified as non-inbred. Then carefully breed them to create foals with good GP's and skills that are not inbred!


- Current Top GPs for NIB Horses:
(bred with the *original foundies* who had 350-351.2 GP)

Akhal-Teke: 433.29 (2*)
Appaloosa: 592.04 (10*) 6th Gen
Arabians : 847.17 (31*) 3rd Gen
Argentinean Criollo: 534.37 (7*) 1st Gen
Barbs: 392.93 (1*)
Brumbies: 441.30 (2*)
Canadian: 710.75 (18*) 2nd gen
Curly : 897.50 (33*) 3rd Gen
Donkeys: 300.42
Friesian : 507.78 (6*) 2nd Gen
Gypsy Vanner: 565.03 (9*)
Hackneys: 608.80 (11*) 2nd Gen
Hanoverians: 618.73 (12*)
Holsteiner: 584.14 (11*) 1st gen
Icelandic Horse: 431.19 (1*)
Irish Hunters: 452.22 (2*)
Knabstrupper: 564.89 (8*) 1st gen
KWPN: 414.32 (1*)
Lipizzans: 451.15 (2*)
Lusitanos: 558.72 (10*)
Marwari: 551.66 (8*) 1st gen
Morgans: 411.95 (1*)
Mustangs: 419.50 (1*)
Nokota : 427.57 (2*)
Paints: 461.44 (2*)
Peruvian Paso: 441.91 (2*)
Purebred Spanish Horse : 509.03 (6*) 1st gen
Quarter Horse: 450.30 (2*)
Russian Don: 636.94 (13*)
Shagya Arabian : 767.55 (25*) 5th gen
Standardbreds: 469.76 (3*)
Tennessee Walkers: 378.92 (1*)
Thoroughbred: 1086.54 (52*) 7th Gen
Trakhener: 432.77 (1*)

Australian Pony: 581.44 (9*) 1st gen
Chincoteague Pony : 575.97 (8*) 1st gen
Connemaras: 440.00 (2*)
Fjords: 447.42 (1*)
Haflingers: 496.41 (4*)
Highland Pony: 409.22
Newfoundlands: 417.87 (1*)
Quarter Pony: 477.27 (4*)
Shetland : 591.53 (11*) 1st gen
Welsh: 415.59 (1*)

Percherons: 503.74 (3*)
Shires: 461.15 (2*)
Drum horse: 1911.21 (134*)

- Current Top GPs for NIB Horses:
(bred with the *'new' foundies* who have the higher GP)

Barb : 5010.37 (445*) 2nd gen
Camargue : 4944.16 (438*) 2nd Gen
Canadians: 4019.57 (346*) 3rd gen
Curlys: 4480.67 (391*)
Hanoverian: 5510.41 (494*) 1st Gen
Holsteiner: 4627.18 (405*) 1st Gen
Knabstruppers: 3611.72
Finnish : 7001.13 (*642*) 1st gen
French Trotter: 5674.95 (511*) 2nd gen
Friesian: 4608.48 (404*) 2nd Gen
Lustiano : 4977.80 (441*) 1st gen
Mangalarga Marchador: 7417.82 (685*) 4th gen
Marwari : 5409.48 (484*) 1st Gen
Nokotas: 5283.03 (471*) 3rd Gen
Paint Horse: 3094.08 (252*)
Purebred Spanish Horse : 6045.91 5th gen
Quarter Horse: 3104.63 (253*)
Russian Don: 6747.60 (617*) 1st Gen

Kerry Bog: 3892.85 (332*)
Newfoundland Pony: 6955.84 (639*) 1gen
Welsh: 6844.92 (627*) 2nd Gen

Ban'ei: 7638.35 (707*) 3rd gen
Drum Horse : 2378.86 (181*) 5th Gen
Percheron: 5508.49 (494*) 1st Gen
Shire : 5067.74 (451*) 2nd Gen


Rivenwood's update schedule:
Sundays: Players breeding non-inbred horses may post the GPs of the horses they think are amongst the highest in the breed in this topic. Complete details should include everything listed in the form below. **Please DO NOT Submit GPs for rankings EXCEPT on Sunday!**
Misabel will post the latest high GP's for NIB horses in each breed from the Sunday submissions. Horses will not be named

Please submit your entry to the current high NIB GP using the following format in a post. It is important you use this exact format so Misabel can locate your post easily, or your submission may be missed:

My NIB GP Entry
Horse's Name:
Horse's Breed (purebreds only please):
Current GP:
Link to the Horse's Page:
 
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By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 09:03:35
Well I gust it is not my falt
I just did not know
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 09:04:08
Well, on Howrse it has no negative effects whatsoever - the vast majority of NIB breeders are NIB because of the challenge and because it's a fun way to play the game, not because they object to in-game inbreeding. In fact, breeding related animals in real life is not always bad and is a very useful tool for breeders who know how to use it well.
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 09:29:26
Inbreeding, in real life, isn't necessarily bad, as long as you KNOW what you are doing, and know enough about genetics to avoid 99% of genetic problems!
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 09:55:35
LoloJean - that's not entirely true. In real life, those that 'knew what they were doing' caused some serious genetic issues within entire breeds by inbreeding. Sometimes it was forced, the genetic population was small and there was no choice. Other times, it was a bad decision made by a group of breeders that negatively impacted an entire breed.

American Thoroughbreds, for instance, have had some serious health issues arise in the past 50 years from breeders crossing to get as many lines of one stallion into one foal; this exploits and exacerbates any genetic issue the particular line may have had. Eight Belles is a good example of this; she had at least four crosses to Native Dancer, whose lines are known in many thoroughbred circles to produce large fast horses, but crossing to him multiple times can lead to weak feet and other genetic issues. Barbaro and Eight Belles were both directly descended from Native Dancer: it is estimated 75% of US Throughbreds have Native Dancer in their pedigrees. Quarter Horses are seeing a terrible disease now in the horses that are heavily line-bred to the great stallion Poco Bueno; it's called HERDA. Friesians saw such an impact from inbreeding that many of the breed's registries now tabulate an inbreeding coefficient on a horse's papers, to keep the inbreeding to a minimum.

On the game, inbreeding has no real negative effect. Those that choose to breed NIB do it for the fun, challenge, and supportive environment NIB breeders often offer one another default smiley :)
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 10:03:19
Yeah, it's definitely something that should be used responsibly and with the welfare/health of the animals in mind. It would be too complicated an issue to realistically integrate into this game, at any rate.
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 10:17:15
Let me just say, I don't have an issue with responsible linebreeding. I have horses in my barn that have several crosses to one particular horse or another; but I certainly don't breed them with anything that has closely related lines. Fortunately my chosen 'real life' breed is the Arabian, which has had so much genetic diversity over the years that a genetic fault in one line is easy to cull and replace with another line that is healthy. One of my half arab girls has two crosses to Three Bars, but it's six generations back. One of my purebred girls has no common lines until you get five generations back. You have to reach six generations back in my stallion's pedigree before you find a horse appearing twice (though Bask appears three times, between generations 6 and 7). However, most of the lines that appear multiple times in one horse do not appear in the others (this is true in all lines except two, and I refuse to cull Khemosabi from my program, though I don't have anything more closely related to him than a granddaughter).

So yes, I do some small and carefully monitored linebreeding. All the foals I've produced to date have been healthy, happy, and genetically sound. But I spent 15 years learning about horses and properly raising them, and then an additional eight years under a breeder with decades of real life experience and genetic knowledge before I took the reins on my own default smiley :)

The things that frighten me are breeders who repeatedly breed parent to offspring and grandchild; In the Arabian world, I've seen folks who have proudly boasted that their horse is 85% one line: that's a stallion bred to daughter, bred to that resulting filly, and then bred to that resulting filly; 6 of the 7 lines are one single horse. That's a scary proposition, and while some of those horses are fantastically beautiful and talented, personally I would be wary of them as you don't know what recessive traits might pop up in the next generation, if you make the cross again.
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 13:04:24
Inner Chorus , I will not fib I have used filler horses myself on occasion just to get a slow moving competition to just hurry up and run already.
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 13:09:19
I posted a suggestion about the comps over on the share your ideas thing about it.
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 13:24:47
Is someone know the current top GPs for Standardbreds or am I the only NIB breeder for them (cause it seem that they aren't in the ranking yet) ?
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 13:58:41
A breeder called wordweasel2 used to do Standardbreds, but she has since quit the game - she sold all her stock before leaving but unfortunately I don't know who the horses went to. She reached 363 GP with them.

I gave in and bought some fillers to try and get comps going... At the moment I'm stalled and just sitting here waiting for them to run. If anyone wants to help me out I'm willing to do the same in return and get some fillers of your breed for your BLUPing NIBs (GP race breeders work together to get comp wins so I see no reason why NIB breeders can't do the same - PM me if you're interested, it might make getting wins much easier).
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 14:15:31
Hi,
Anyone breedin NIB Barbs? Got nearly bluped foundie mare Sirocco and her foal Eclipse ( now 2 yrs), foal also NIB as Sirocco was bred with a foundie stally, no tear used. Can we use tears or is that a no no also? Was woundering if any 2nd gen NIB Barbs stallies out there?

Cheers
Mdefault smiley ;)
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 14:17:48
Tears are fine to use - some NIB breeders do. default smiley :)
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 14:21:09
Cool, thanks default smiley ;). Now just to find that Barb stally, thou no hurry yet as Eclipse is still too young and un-blupped.

Cheers
Mdefault smiley ;)
By Dr Zig, 3rd December 2009 14:24:51
Wow Rivenwood, I didn't know that you knew about thoroughbred pedigrees; they're my area of professional expertise! Yes, I have a very unusual mix of academic and professional qualifications and work records default smiley xd

In addition to inbreeding to the Native Dancer line, particularly through the branchs extending from his influential grandson Mr Prospector, there has been very heavy inbreeding, around the world, to the Northern Dancer line (Native Dancer is his maternal grandsire). Crossing the Danehill branch with the Sadler's Wells branches of the Northern Dancer line has become very popular in Europe while inbreeding to Danehill and other Danzig-line (broader Northern Dancer line) has become a massive problem in Australia. Two branches of the Danzig line have established themselves in western Europe: Green Desert and Danehill, and now breeders are trying to inbreed to those branches. Inbreeding to influential mares is also very popular and there is an increasing number of horses who will be inbred to Thong, her daughter Special and granddaughter Fairy Bridge.

Anyhow, I have a bunch of foundation horses and some second generation ones. I might try a bit of NIB breeding or just sell them on - I haven't decided yet default smiley :)
Dr Zig
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By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 14:35:00
> Dr Zig
Hi,

You dont happen to have a 2nd gen NIB Barbs boy somewhere getting bored and dustydefault smiley (lol).
Was gonna look but, you got to many !! my head would be spinnging just going through them all.

Cheers
Mdefault smiley ;)
By Dr Zig, 3rd December 2009 14:37:29
Hi Morathi. I don't have any second generation barbs, just a foundation stallion.
Dr Zig
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By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 14:43:37
Hi Dr Zig,
How is his Blup? Could use for my foundy mare for 2nd line maybe. How much for a covering? Or do you want to sell him?

Cheers
M default smiley ;)
By Dr Zig, 3rd December 2009 15:07:12
Hi Morathi. His name is FootstepsInTheSand. He is 100 blup and bolded and I've just put out some 200e covering offers to him. I won't be selling him though default smiley :)
Dr Zig
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By nlriver, 3rd December 2009 15:07:45
Are we allowed to advertise that we have fillers for other NIB breeders? I've got two Brumby fillers if anyone would like help BLUPping their Brumbies. Both intentionally badly trained and extremely low skilled and I highly doubt that they could win anything.

I do not mean to advertise these for sale, but I will put them in comps with anyones horses so they can get easier wins. I'm gonna have a look and see if I can get a few more low skill pairs in other breeds.
nlriver
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By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 15:10:36
Hi Dr Zig,

I can see that you would not sell him default smiley :) , I found him as was trawing the sales and checked the foals bloodline, very nice he is indeed. Ty for the coverings, I got get Sirocco and lets see what they can cook up.

Cheers
M default smiley ;)
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 17:09:23
My personal opinion on comps has been posted and I believe it would help both EC owners and NIber's greatly with BLUPping. It is on the sugestions forum as comps change.
As for the fillers I will send you a pm.
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 17:14:13
YAY!!!

I won a year old foundie colt in auction!

His current GP leaves some things to be desired, but at least he'll be started better than the other foundies!
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 17:15:49
You can use Black Orchids to correct incomplete foal games if you get them young enough - replenishes the energy to allow more play in a day, which can often give full gains even if the games haven't been started correctly.
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 17:24:34
I don't know if this is allowed here, but I have many Peruvian Pasos and Morgans that I am looking to sell. They are all NIB. I was planning on going in several directions with many breeds but have decided to concentrate on RDH, Hanos and Fresians only. Please PM me if you are interested and defintely PM me if you have any suggestions for breeding of the other breeds - I could use all the help I can get!! Thanks!! default smiley :d
By Retired breeder, 3rd December 2009 19:09:04
Inner Chorus - I quite often use fillers when comps are taking days to run. Actually, if i have a really stubborn foundie i wheadle and beg my friends on here to fill the other 4 places to get my wins in. Only as a last resort though after i have persevered for a while default smiley :)
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