[Info] NIB Horses

By Retired breeder, 17th November 2009 23:20:05
208
It's about time the NIB breeders had their own corner of the world default smiley ;)

Curious about NIB horses? Want to know what a NIB horse is? You've come to the right place!

What is this topic for? NIB enthusiasts to find each other and help one another progress in their respective games.
Otherwise, you may use this topic to help others learn about NIBs, share your experience, and find friends that breed NIBs default smiley :)

Please do not use this topic for advertising horses for sale.

The NIB FAQ:

What is a NIB horse?
A NIB horse is a horse that is not inbred; every horse in its pedigree appears only once (with the exception of Ouranos and Gaia). Horses with "Horse Disappeared" in their pedigree are generally not accepted by NIB breeders unless the horses in question were bought before the horses disappeared and have verifiable pedigrees.

Are there green star NIB horses?
These horses have lower GP than green stars and other top horses, as not inbreeding limits the breeding availability and is slower to progress than breeding brothers to sisters and so forth.
**Misabel edit: The first Green star NIB horse was created on February 21, 2011 - a 6th generation Connemara pony with a star in stamina. He was the end result of a lot of hard work and effort, but now that some dedicated breeders have shown it can be done, we all have something to shoot for!

Are NIB horses considered better than green stars or inbred horses?
Goodness, no! Nobody here is attempting to make that claim. Just like the Zero GP horses, these players choose to play the game in their own challenging way.

How can I get involved with NIB breeding?
It's simple! Start by purchasing a few foundation horses, or horses whose pedigrees can be tracked down and verified as non-inbred. Then carefully breed them to create foals with good GP's and skills that are not inbred!


- Current Top GPs for NIB Horses:
(bred with the *original foundies* who had 350-351.2 GP)

Akhal-Teke: 433.29 (2*)
Appaloosa: 592.04 (10*) 6th Gen
Arabians : 847.17 (31*) 3rd Gen
Argentinean Criollo: 534.37 (7*) 1st Gen
Barbs: 392.93 (1*)
Brumbies: 441.30 (2*)
Canadian: 710.75 (18*) 2nd gen
Curly : 897.50 (33*) 3rd Gen
Donkeys: 300.42
Friesian : 507.78 (6*) 2nd Gen
Gypsy Vanner: 565.03 (9*)
Hackneys: 608.80 (11*) 2nd Gen
Hanoverians: 618.73 (12*)
Holsteiner: 584.14 (11*) 1st gen
Icelandic Horse: 431.19 (1*)
Irish Hunters: 452.22 (2*)
Knabstrupper: 564.89 (8*) 1st gen
KWPN: 414.32 (1*)
Lipizzans: 451.15 (2*)
Lusitanos: 558.72 (10*)
Marwari: 551.66 (8*) 1st gen
Morgans: 411.95 (1*)
Mustangs: 419.50 (1*)
Nokota : 427.57 (2*)
Paints: 461.44 (2*)
Peruvian Paso: 441.91 (2*)
Purebred Spanish Horse : 509.03 (6*) 1st gen
Quarter Horse: 450.30 (2*)
Russian Don: 636.94 (13*)
Shagya Arabian : 767.55 (25*) 5th gen
Standardbreds: 469.76 (3*)
Tennessee Walkers: 378.92 (1*)
Thoroughbred: 1086.54 (52*) 7th Gen
Trakhener: 432.77 (1*)

Australian Pony: 581.44 (9*) 1st gen
Chincoteague Pony : 575.97 (8*) 1st gen
Connemaras: 440.00 (2*)
Fjords: 447.42 (1*)
Haflingers: 496.41 (4*)
Highland Pony: 409.22
Newfoundlands: 417.87 (1*)
Quarter Pony: 477.27 (4*)
Shetland : 591.53 (11*) 1st gen
Welsh: 415.59 (1*)

Percherons: 503.74 (3*)
Shires: 461.15 (2*)
Drum horse: 1911.21 (134*)

- Current Top GPs for NIB Horses:
(bred with the *'new' foundies* who have the higher GP)

Barb : 5010.37 (445*) 2nd gen
Camargue : 4944.16 (438*) 2nd Gen
Canadians: 4019.57 (346*) 3rd gen
Curlys: 4480.67 (391*)
Hanoverian: 5510.41 (494*) 1st Gen
Holsteiner: 4627.18 (405*) 1st Gen
Knabstruppers: 3611.72
Finnish : 7001.13 (*642*) 1st gen
French Trotter: 5674.95 (511*) 2nd gen
Friesian: 4608.48 (404*) 2nd Gen
Lustiano : 4977.80 (441*) 1st gen
Mangalarga Marchador: 7417.82 (685*) 4th gen
Marwari : 5409.48 (484*) 1st Gen
Nokotas: 5283.03 (471*) 3rd Gen
Paint Horse: 3094.08 (252*)
Purebred Spanish Horse : 6045.91 5th gen
Quarter Horse: 3104.63 (253*)
Russian Don: 6747.60 (617*) 1st Gen

Kerry Bog: 3892.85 (332*)
Newfoundland Pony: 6955.84 (639*) 1gen
Welsh: 6844.92 (627*) 2nd Gen

Ban'ei: 7638.35 (707*) 3rd gen
Drum Horse : 2378.86 (181*) 5th Gen
Percheron: 5508.49 (494*) 1st Gen
Shire : 5067.74 (451*) 2nd Gen


Rivenwood's update schedule:
Sundays: Players breeding non-inbred horses may post the GPs of the horses they think are amongst the highest in the breed in this topic. Complete details should include everything listed in the form below. **Please DO NOT Submit GPs for rankings EXCEPT on Sunday!**
Misabel will post the latest high GP's for NIB horses in each breed from the Sunday submissions. Horses will not be named

Please submit your entry to the current high NIB GP using the following format in a post. It is important you use this exact format so Misabel can locate your post easily, or your submission may be missed:

My NIB GP Entry
Horse's Name:
Horse's Breed (purebreds only please):
Current GP:
Link to the Horse's Page:
 
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By LovePony, 1st October 2021 16:50:45
Hi. What is a NIB horse?
LovePony
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By Yankee Lady, 1st October 2021 17:44:04
1
NIB stands for not-in-bred. Most horses on this game are bred without regard for whether the parents are related or not -- that is called IB or in-bred breeding. A horse that is NIB means that any horse in its family tree appears ONLY once. The parents must be totally unrelated with absolutely no common ancestor.

It is a more challenging way of breeding in my opinion, and many other NIB breeders over the years. I tried the IB but found it somewhat without challenge. An NIB breeder must thoroughtly check any horse to be used for breeding to make sure that no ancestor appears more than once in its family tree. As the generation of the horse goes up, that involves more and more research, some players give up after just a few generations simply because of the work involved. It is easier if you only use your own horses for breeding as you know their ancestry and don't have to do all the research. Many NIBers do only breed their own and do not go outside to find stallions – but this is more due to the problem of disappeared parents (player who had horse in their possession and deleted their accounts removing the horses from the Howrse database – any descendants of those horses become none NIB since their parentage can not be proven).

You start with foundations. And if you want to breed for green stars, to get just one you will need to have enough foundations to do 5 generations although more and more people are getting in 4 generations (5 generations = 64 foundations, 4 generations = 32 foundations, and if very lucky, which is happening more and more 3 generations = 16 foundations). Does that help you figure out what you want to do?

It goes like this, and remember once you have used a horse for breeding, you can't use it again in the same line -- can start a new line but the results can never be bred together.. Base layer 64 generations which means 32 breeding pairs. First generation (foundation parents) of 32 means 16 breeding pairs. Second generation (1st gen parents) of 16 means 8 breeding pairs. Third generation (2nd gen parents) of 8 means 4 breeding pairs (among these if VERY lucky may have 1 or 2 green stars). Fourth generation (3rd gen parents) of 4 means 2 breeding pairs (more likely to have some single stars here). Fifth generation (4th gen parents) of 2 means 1 breeding pair. Sixth generation of a single horse. If you want to breed it with your own stock, need to start a new line with a whole new group of 64 foundations.

So as you can see you need a huge number of your own foundations unless you are going out to get coverings from other NIB breeders (many of whom do not do outside breedings of any kind), if so you can have just mares (use Zeus Lightening Bolts to change gender if have colts) and do it in half the foundations needed.

Hope that helps to explain how it is done. If interested, welcome to the NIB community
Yankee Lady
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By Yankee Lady, 1st October 2021 17:46:47
Copied the above from info in my EC's forum, green star info is out of date.
Yankee Lady
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By Yankee Lady, 2nd October 2021 17:29:50
1
Interesting, tigrelilly, I set the GP maximum to 352 for searching for OGs.

I am slowly sorting through my horses and separating out the OGs into their own breeding farms under "Foundations". Check to see if I have located any of your breed. Selling to NIBers for minimum price.

If anyone needs to dump foundations in short time, contact me. I will accept them and put them with me for people to locate. Will be easier for all if fewer players are liquidating at the same time. Will take both OG and RG, but mostly interested in OGs. I can then pass them on to the players who have specified what breeds they are looking for to me.

Thanks.
Yankee Lady
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By Yankee Lady, 2nd October 2021 17:57:23
1
For those thinking of starting NIBing here are a few tips from my experience.

1 - Decide whether you want to start with OG (Original Generation) or the newer foundations which can have very different GPs. OG horses will have GPs from 350-351.2. We used to be able to raise a foal's GP through gaming, no longer true. These include the older breeds.

2 - Once you know whether you want to work with OG or newer foundies, you need to choose a breed. Looking at the stats included in the introduction to this forum you can get an idea of which breeds are available under the 2 types of foundations.

3 - You've now decided on which foundation and which breed. Now is the time to search for and buy your base foundations. You will need a LOT if you plan to raise many generations - remember your foundations and NIB horses can only be bred ONCE.

For example:
Foundations = 64 or 32 breeding pairs,
1st gen 32 NIB or 16 breeding pairs,
2nd gen 16 NIB or 8 breeding pairs,
3rd gen 8 NIB or 4 breeding pairs,
4th gen 4 NIB or 2 breeding pairs,
5th gen 2 NIB or 1 breeding pair,
6th gen 1 NIB.

If you wan to go farther here are some foundation numbers needed:t
7 gens = 128 foundations,
8 gen = 256 foundations,
9 gen = 612 foundations,
and so on. Each additional generation DOUBLES the number of foundations needed compared to previous generation.

So picking breed where foundations are available can be crucial. At the moment I and a few other NIBers are liquidfying their foundies. Let me know what breed you want and I can let you know if I have any. 99% of my foundies are OG.
Yankee Lady
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By Yankee Lady, 2nd October 2021 18:14:24
6
I have been doing some rethinking about whether or not I will completely delete account. Think it can be very confusing trying to figure out who might have foundations for sale They can be hard to find and not all horses marked "foundation" in sales are actually foundies.

Therefore, I'd like to get your opinion on something. How about setting up a central location for people to come to find foundations. I would be willing to finance it. Could buy up "certified" foundations from sales and breeders, that are willing to sell for equus and not passes. Then I would offer them to NIBers for base price. Players looking would know that any horse labeled "foundation" in location is CERTIFIED foundation.

One thing I have always liked in Howrse is gaming foals (used to actually have a gaming service) and taking them through early training/rides. On days I feel good I might even do preliminary training of youngsters. If I was to do this I would try to get on at least once a week, hopefully more.

Have come to realize how much I have missed my friends here on Howrse, and interacting with them.

Please let me know what you think of the above proposition. Thanks.
Yankee Lady
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By Retired breeder, 3rd October 2021 05:13:56
I think the above proposal is brilliant. As you've stated before not all horses boasting the title foundie is, in fact, a title correctly given to them. It also takes away the hassle and frustration of trying to figure out which foundies in the sales are or aren't inbred before someone else snatches them up.
By Asfridur, 4th October 2021 13:05:09
@Yankee Lady - would be really great if you decided to stay on howrse.
You used to be a great asset to the NIB community back when the 350 GPs and the NIB'ers where a tight and friendly community default smiley (l)

The certified foundation barn is a very very nice idea. But you having to pay to buy them in sales does not seem fair!
Asfridur
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By Yankee Lady, 5th October 2021 15:37:38
1
superocelot02 and Asfridur,

Thanks for your comments on my establishing a centralized buying/selling location for foundations. I can well remember my early days trying to collect enough and that was long before they became so hard to find legitimate ones.

I've been buying foundations in sales for years, of various prices, including passes although I try to stay away from any high priced ones, and reselling them to NIBers for 500-1,000e. After so many years I have accumulated a decent amount of equus and passes, why not use them for this purpose:

Will post on here if I decide to go ahead with the idea. Won't decide until I get a good idea if enough NIBers would be interested in the proposal.
Yankee Lady
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By Twinjodi, 5th October 2021 23:11:35
I think that is a great idea Yankee but that would be super time consuming for a person! Especially a person with bad health!

I think possibly doable would be to do like a clean sweep once a month of the sales of foundies for non-outrageous prices and then "board" them in your barn for the duration until they find a home [I would suggest only buying breeds that may be getting bred by players right now], I think that would be nice and it would be awesome of you to use your collective earnings to buy and help other NIBBers out!
Twinjodi
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By Retired breeder, 6th October 2021 01:43:48
I agree that it is time consuming especially with those with bad health (I forgot that my apologizes). Maybe there could be a couple users that could do that, so that way it is not as time comsuming/expensive versus if one person were to do it.
By lbenedict15, 6th October 2021 10:30:58
2
I think it is a great idea, and I feel like maybe it would help bring the NIB community together a bit more and help get new interest. I, for one, would be willing to help out with grabbing up some, as I already somewhat do this anyhow. I also don't have a lot of time, and yes it can very time consuming, especially if you get into the auctions. The nice thing about focusing mostly on sales, you can commit whatever you time you can. There may be missed sales, but one more set of eyes in the sales is what will help. I have never had an issue spending oodles of my resources on horses and passing them on for 500e. Personal opinion of course, but any of us who breed non-starter breeds know how resource intensive it can be to build up a herd. I would say around half, if not closer to three quarters of my foundation herds have come to me from other NIBers for 500e or extensively lower costs. I don't look for handouts, and neither has anyone I've worked with. And, in my experience, things equal out eventually. The player you help out may throw an item your way that you need quick, or pick up another horse for your herd, fill for you, or just become a really great contributor to the NIB community in general. I've been burned a few times, as we all have I am sure. But any little bit helps all of us progress.
lbenedict15
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By Retired breeder, 6th October 2021 21:13:57
Does anyone think it would help to make a discord server? I could make one if ya' wanted/thought it would help.

It wouldn't be anything fancy though
By Twinjodi, 6th October 2021 23:16:27


We actually have two!
One here for International and then another for US server. I'll message you!
Twinjodi
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By Asfridur, 7th October 2021 07:24:44
1
LIke the idea that is posted. Checking sales like once a month or once every 2 weeks.
Perhaps appoint one or 2 helpers Yankee Lady?

I don't mind buying old GP stock and / or RG stock, and then sell them to fellow NIB'ers for 500e either.
But like many here I'm not willing to pay a fortune for one horse in neither passes nor ecuus
Asfridur
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By tigrelily, 11th October 2021 06:34:52
Sounds great! Perhaps a small collective of players could house the horses until their new owners could take them.

I do have some foundies of different breeds that I don't do anything with and could use a good home. (I haven't sorted them out, yet. But will be willing for those who are interested.)

For certified covers, I have most of YL's TESF stallions. They are 100% blupped.

I will welcome any original black Arabian foundation horse for the right price. Once upon a time, there were a couple of players who were willing to sell their Arabs to me, but drifted off the game.
tigrelily
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By Redghost, 12th October 2021 09:09:29
Hello, I am looking for OG Tennessee Walkers. I will pay a fair price for them.
I am looking into breeding my own line of the breed.
I want to get as many as I can, if you have any you are looking to sell please consider PMing me.

Thank you!
ShadowDreamer777
Redghost
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By Redghost, 12th October 2021 09:26:52
Actually scratch the Tennessee Walkers, I would much prefer to do fjords.
Appreciated!

Thank you,
ShadowDreamer777
Redghost
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By Redghost, 12th October 2021 09:45:02
Sorry, me again!
Please disregard both top message.

I am currently looking for OG frisians, fjords and Tennessee Walkers.

Thank you!
ShadowDreamer777
Redghost
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By Retired breeder, 12th October 2021 23:57:28


Hey! I don't have any of the 350 GP fjords, but I do have a pair of the new foundies. I cannot sell them (since the game doesn't allow it) but if you'd like a foal I'd be happy to help!
By tigrelily, 13th October 2021 18:55:35
Re: gibbous
"Hey! I don't have any of the 350 GP fjords, but I do have a pair of the new foundies. I cannot sell them (since the game doesn't allow it) but if you'd like a foal I'd be happy to help!"

Why can't you sell your horses?
tigrelily
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By ʀoo, 13th October 2021 20:39:55
1

Apparently players cannot sell their first 2 horses now
ʀoo
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By pony lover972, 13th October 2021 22:29:16
my god, i didn't even think NIB breeders were still a thing. I have a couple OG 350GP foundies, even still have my own first horse with a 350GP
pony lover972
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By pony lover972, 13th October 2021 22:30:24
also totally off topic but is it not the done thing to sign of your form posts with Regards and your username?
pony lover972
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By Retired breeder, 14th October 2021 06:04:09
If anyone has any RG KWPNs, I would love to either breed or buy from you! Please PM me!
I have an F1 generation in the works, but it's only off of one Sire and two Dams, so I really would like to expand either the P1 or F1 generation.

Thanks so much!
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