Item or pass trafficking. What's that?

This is a copy of the message that was previously sent by Ow to all players for future reference.


Hello Everyone,


Lately it has been brought to my attention that there have been some misunderstandings concerning what is or isn't allowed when buying or selling items on the game. I wish to clarify a few points to make sure we are all on the same page regarding item or pass trafficking.



What is pass or item trafficking?


It's simply performing a transaction outside of the available settings and systems offered directly by the game.

- For instance selling a regular horse in a direct sale over 1 000 000 equus and 20 passes isn't possible on Howrse. Some players will therefore sell a second low value horse for a high price to get around the fixed and allowed maximum price. This isn't allowed, if we set a limit there is a reason behind it and trying to get around it is in essence a way of cheating. Not to mention the number of scams this type of transaction generates.



- Black Market items can be exchanged against other Black Market items or equus or given thanks to a donation but only within certain limits. When you donate an item via the gift system, you do it freely and shouldn't ask for a fee for it. That is going around the intended nature of this feature and therefore not allowed.



This includes listing black market items as being for sale on your presentations or saying that black market items will be accepted in lieu of passes for negotiable horse sales which is also pass/item trafficking.

- You cannot sell passes on the game, so using the horse sales or item exchanges as a payment for that type of transaction isn't allowed.



Here are a few of the points that can be found in our Terms of Sale and Terms of Use regarding un-allowed transactions.



In the Terms of Use:



Chapter 3 . USE OF SERVICES AND RULES OF CONDUCT



3.1 Use of Services.



a) You must be authorised to use the Services for which you register in accordance with these Terms or any other terms applicable to such a Service.



b) The Services are intended for personal use only and you must in no event use them in any way for commercial purposes without obtaining a licence to do so from us and/or our licensors.



c) You shall not, directly or indirectly:



(i) sell, rent out or market the Content;



In the terms of Sale:



Chapter 3. Grant of License.

3.3 Transfer of Credits, Subscription or Additional Content.Except where the Service allows a transfer and/or exchange by way of a specific feature within the Service, You shall not transfer or otherwise exchange the Credits, the Subscription or Additional Content within the Service to other users. OWLIENT prohibits and does not recognize any purported transfers of Credits, Subscription(s) or Additional Content effectuated outside the Services.  Accordingly, in no event shall You transfer, sell, or otherwise exchange in kind (nor attempt to do the same) Credits for « real » money, or outside of the Service.



Chapter 6.Credits and Subscription have no real value. 

Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary contained in these Terms of Sale or the Terms of Use, Additional Content, Subscription and Credits, or any other terminology used to describe such, have no monetary or “real world” value and may in no event be exchanged or redeemed for “real” currency or in kind.

OWLIENT prohibits and does not recognize the purported sale, gift or trade in the « real world » of anything that appears or originates in the Services.  Accordingly, You may not sell or transfer Additional Content, Subscription or Credits by any means, nor buy such Additional Content, Subscription or Credits for any purposes other than for their use in the Service(s). Similarly, Subscription(s) or Credits cannot be used to gamble with other users, except if such a feature is expressly included and permitted by OWLIENT in the Service.



You can also find a line concerning this on the karma page:



Cheating: Asking other users their passwords, organizing scams, breaches of trust, stealing accounts, trafficking with accounts, passes or in-game items.




I hope this will clarify any remaining doubts concerning what you can or not do on Howrse and allow you to enjoy your game.

Best Regards
Ow
 
cailow
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ingridironfist wrote:

Is it okay to say on my presentation that I'm looking for certain coloured tack etc and would be willing to gift some other coloured tack in return?


No, gifts are given freely with nothing expected in return, as it says in the main topic


*When you donate an item via the gift system, you do it freely and shouldn't ask for a fee for it. That is going around the intended nature of this feature and therefore not allowed*
raf's mum
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I was just flagged and my page wiped for "pass trafficking" and I cannot understand why as from what I read, I haven't done this at all?
In my presentation I state I sell mares for at least 1 pass.
I recently put up a stallion with a Catrina Brooch coat for sale for 500e and 2 passes, and I edited the name so state I'd also trade him for a horse with the coat I'm missing.
These are the only things I considered a possibility... But from what I read, neither of these are considered trafficking? I'm extremely confused. Any chance anyone can clarify?
rosariored
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RosarioRed wrote:

I was just flagged and my page wiped for "pass trafficking" and I cannot understand why as from what I read, I haven't done this at all?
In my presentation I state I sell mares for at least 1 pass.
I recently put up a stallion with a Catrina Brooch coat for sale for 500e and 2 passes, and I edited the name so state I'd also trade him for a horse with the coat I'm missing.
These are the only things I considered a possibility... But from what I read, neither of these are considered trafficking? I'm extremely confused. Any chance anyone can clarify?


You would have to go to contact us and talk with them about it. Link at the bottom of any page.
rogin
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RosarioRed wrote:

I was just flagged and my page wiped for "pass trafficking" and I cannot understand why as from what I read, I haven't done this at all?
In my presentation I state I sell mares for at least 1 pass.
I recently put up a stallion with a Catrina Brooch coat for sale for 500e and 2 passes, and I edited the name so state I'd also trade him for a horse with the coat I'm missing.
These are the only things I considered a possibility... But from what I read, neither of these are considered trafficking? I'm extremely confused. Any chance anyone can clarify?


For as far I understood it's against the rules to trade horses because there's no option provided by Howrse to do that. It's easy to cheat when trading horses, I could say I have that coat you want, take your horse for 500 equus and change my mind.
lauwe
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I apologise if this question is a bit silly, I just figured I'd ask here to ensure that I don't break any rules.

The post says that we are not allowed to advertise black market items as being for sale on our presentations (and from what I've understood from reading the comments in this thread, even if it is being sold for equus, which is within the game's functions). Does this mean no advertising on our presentations at all, or does this only apply to this specific case with black market items? For example, would I be allowed to put something such as "I am willing to buy all unwanted horses for 2,000 equus, PM me for more details" on my presentation?

Thanks in advance for the help.
diggi
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I have a quick question which involves advertising on your page... Would it be against the rules for you to say you are looking for a certain coat color, GA coat etc? Because I know lots of people have the GA coats they are looking for on their page so others who happen by know.
warriors 123
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In answer to the last 2 posts, as long as you aren't offfering to trade items or horses outside of the game systems, you can advertise on your page that you are looking for certain things like coats or breeds. You can say which BMIs you have in the exchanges but it's probably not going to help you get your exchange any quicker as most people will just look at the exchanges and see a deal there that they like.
minkthepink
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Ok, now i know default smiley (y)
evelinsa
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Unbelievable. I have spent a lot of money and so so much time to my pass horse farm. I have 50-100 old horses that I have bought or grow to pass horses. Is it really needable? default smiley :'(
desayar
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I’m fine with these rules. And howrse team didn’t do anything wrong. There trying to stop cheating and other bad stuff.
firerose
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censurer This message has been censored since it does not follow the forum rules.
Okay, so I understand that you can get in trouble for selling a horse to a friend. So I've played this game before and I restarted, I sold my friend a couple of my horses because she needed them, one of my uni's for an objective, two rosette horses for her objectives. I sold them for only 500e. Is this still considered trafficing? I didn't sell for passes and I didnt sell them to make money, I sold them because I wanted to help my friend. I was wondering if it is against the rules to help your friend like that. And how could somebody tell if it's trafficking? Does howrse just know...?
tom hiddleston
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There is nothing wrong with selling your friend a horse and nothing wrong in being nice and pricing it low. An example of trafficking is when you sell someone several horses in exchange for them selling you one very good one - all at , say 500e. Or you might sell a lot of low value horses for much more than their value in order to transfer equus or passes from one account to another. The game has no mechanism to trade horses for horses or BMIs for horses or passes so it's against the rules. There are a number of permutations on this but ,if you stick to using the sales as intended, you will be fine. If something is very involved and means lots of things going back and for between players, then it's probably not within the rules - and you can always PM a mod to if you're unsure about something.
minkthepink
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is it alright for me to say on my presentation that I will buy any horse over 25 years of age for 10 passes? I don't want to be flagged and have my page wipeddefault smiley :$
kylerismyangel
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Tom Hiddleston wrote:

Okay, so I understand that you can get in trouble for selling a horse to a friend. So I've played this game before and I restarted, I sold my friend a couple of my horses because she needed them, one of my uni's for an objective, two rosette horses for her objectives. I sold them for only 500e. Is this still considered trafficing? I didn't sell for passes and I didnt sell them to make money, I sold them because I wanted to help my friend. I was wondering if it is against the rules to help your friend like that. And how could somebody tell if it's trafficking? Does howrse just know...?


the person below you answered your question. im not sure if you saw that
kylerismyangel
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what is the difference between a pass horse and a equus
tmc_59
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A person in a Facebook group I'm in was asking for donations so she could buy passes to become eligible for VIP. When I explained she would still need to purchase VIP after she became eligible, she said she got passes a lot cheaper off other players (I'm assuming someone buys in bulk and people split the cost because it evens out to be cheaper). Is this okay or against the game rules?
luckyyladyy
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minkthepink wrote:

Or you might sell a lot of low value horses for much more than their value in order to transfer equus or passes from one account to another.


But who is the Howrse team to judge what we as players think our horses are valued at? For example, if I think my horse is worth 200,000 equus and I sell it to someone for that price, but the Howrse team thinks my Howrse is actually valued at 10,000 equus, would I be in trouble for "transferring equus" from my account to another?

If I think my horse is valued at 200,000, I'm going to sell it for 200,000, no matter what other people's opinions are. It's MY horse and the auctions, direct and reserved sales give us as players the freedom to price our horses at whatever we think they are valued at. If we're not even allowed to personally judge our own horses values and price them at whatever we deem reasonable, why do we have the option to choose the price of our horses when we sell them?

Won't let me quote it for some reason, but Cailow said:
- For instance selling a regular horse in a direct sale over 1 000 000 equus and 20 passes isn't possible on Howrse. Some players will therefore sell a second low value horse for a high price to get around the fixed and allowed maximum price. This isn't allowed,

How can the Howrse team prove this? Sure some players might try and transfer currency this way, but this blanket rule will also harm innocent players who are simply selling multiple horses at prices that they think are reasonable.

Even if the Howrse team individually checks each case instead of simply punishing lots of players that were caught in the radar, my earlier point still stands - what right do they have to decide what price our horses should be valued at? They aren't the ones who looked after that horse, or trained it or blupped it. Are their opinions on our own horses more important than our own? That's not a very comforting thought - there's no point in them giving us the freedom of selling our horses at *whatever price we want between 500-1,500,000 equus and 10-2500 passes* if they're just going to completely control the feature and punish any players who don't fit their ideals.
blueeclover
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I agree 100% blueeclover
kylerismyangel
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Just to add to what I said the other day, I just saw this in the "Reminder: keep Howrse a great community" forum that was posted a week ago:

"Note that if you decide to participate in a private agreement with another player, it is at your own risk (Example: I’ll sell you my horse if you sell yours to me).

Our team will not interfere if the other player does not keep their promises."

So are we now allowed to use horses as prizes in giveaways? Giveaways are practically a mutual agreement; e.g. "if you enter my giveaway, I may or may not sell you a horse for 500 equus depending on if you win the giveaway or not." That's how giveaways work, correct? These new rules state that giveaways are pretty much considered to be a private agreement, and therefore the Howrse team won't interfere. I hope that this is the case; maybe Owlient actually listened to what the players had to say for once.

If not then jeez Howrse team make your rules more clear, otherwise we can and will find loopholes in them, because some of these rules are just ridiculous and completely different to how the game was run years ago.
blueeclover
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Frankly I am tired of Howrse telling me what I should and should not be able to do with my game. For example, if I decided to give a horse in a giveaway or price it at a certain level, Howrse has no right to interfere with it. Blueeclover, you make an excellent point in this in each of your posts.

Howrse is obviously not interested in making the game easier to play. For example, it would not be difficult to set a higher amount of passes/equus to be traded (the exchanges comes to mind), or allow a horse to be traded for BMIs. Howrse said some time ago that the point of keeping these restrictions in place is that they are not making money from the players' actions. I wish I still had access to that thread, but Howrse has conveniently erased it. I believe it was the Spring Cleaning thread.

Howrse is so bent on making money that it loses sight of what is truly important, the players. Even if you have the occasional cheater, Howrse has completely blown it out of proportion to what is happening. It is a PIXEL HORSE GAME, not the lottery. It doesn't matter in the long run if a few players cheat if it means that you will have a happier player base.

Howrse, you have scorned the entire player base and basically shown us the front of your hand in every circumstance, instead of the back. At this rate people will stop supporting the game. Howrse needs to wake up and realize that happy players = income.

Proximity to power deludes some into thinking they wield it.
britomartis
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Britomartis wrote:

It is a PIXEL HORSE GAME, not the lottery. It doesn't matter in the long run if a few players cheat if it means that you will have a happier player base.


We respectfully disagree.
zowey
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blueeclover wrote:

Even if the Howrse team individually checks each case instead of simply punishing lots of players that were caught in the radar, my earlier point still stands - what right do they have to decide what price our horses should be valued at? They aren't the ones who looked after that horse, or trained it or blupped it. Are their opinions on our own horses more important than our own? That's not a very comforting thought - there's no point in them giving us the freedom of selling our horses at *whatever price we want between 500-1,500,000 equus and 10-2500 passes* if they're just going to completely control the feature and punish any players who don't fit their ideals.


Technically, as the owners of the game and the writers of the rules, they have every right to decide how it is played. All games are this way.

However, we don't mean that if we deem it worth 200k and you sell it for 150k it's trafficking, necessarily. It could be if it's part of a larger set of behaviors, but it's not against the rules to give a friend a good deal. Or anyone for that matter.

But if the horse is worth 200k and you sell it for 500, then we may wonder why. Since this behavior is questionable, we removed the ability for players to give horses away in giveaways for this reason.

Additionally, we're not punishing players who "don't fit our ideals," we're punishing players who don't follow our rules.

Private agreements are against the rules because you're right, we often can't tell if a private agreement has taken place and that makes it difficult when one player doesn't live up to their end of the bargain and the other ends up in support asking to get their currency/horse back. The private agreement rule is more about protecting players from scammers who agree to one thing and then don't follow through, often with a new player who doesn't know better yet.
zowey
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luckyyladyy wrote:

A person in a Facebook group I'm in was asking for donations so she could buy passes to become eligible for VIP. When I explained she would still need to purchase VIP after she became eligible, she said she got passes a lot cheaper off other players (I'm assuming someone buys in bulk and people split the cost because it evens out to be cheaper). Is this okay or against the game rules?


Buying passes in any way other than purchasing them from us is against the rules.
zowey
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ZOwey wrote:

Technically, as the owners of the game and the writers of the rules, they have every right to decide how it is played


Respectfully, why are we given the option to price our own horses then? If the Howrse team ultimately have the final say, they may as well just give us an estimated price value of every one of our horse's worth so everything can just be wrapped in a neat little bow and we can sell our horses for whatever price the Howrse team decides with their authority. Then nobody would be in trouble for selling their horse for the "wrong" price. If I decide to sell a "high value" horse for lower than what it is worth, isn't that my choice? We are given the option to sell horses for between 500-1,500,000 equus - if selling my horse for 500 equus is such a terrible crime that must be punished, the minimum price should really be bumped up to something much higher.

Us players are simply just using the features that were given to us, and I strongly dislike the fact that we can be in trouble for selling a horse for a lower price than what a higher authority thinks it is worth, even if that lower price is still 100% legal and allowed. We really should be given a new rule of some sort; something along the lines of, "if you sell a horse that has over 10,000 skills for a 500 equus, you will be watched by the Howrse team for suspicious activity, but if it has less than 10,000 skills then no problem that horse isn't worth enough anyway so go ahead!" Honestly, just a clearer set of rules would be very appreciated by many players.

ZOwey wrote:

But if the horse is worth 200k and you sell it for 500, then we may wonder why. Since this behavior is questionable, we removed the ability for players to give horses away in giveaways for this reason.


I understand what you're getting at; if this behaviour is against the Howrse rules then so be it, they're your rules and we have to abide them. However, some players are not trying to cheat, they simply just want to help other players out - for example, giveaway hosts. I don't think that a player winning a single horse in a giveaway and having it being sold to them for 500e is a problem, as it really isn't a big deal, it's just an act of kindness that I believe should be encouraged on this game. Giveaways have been around for years and years, and if this were a problem from the beginning I'm sure Howrse would have banned horses from being prizes in giveaways a long time ago.

I hope I'm right in assuming that the recent rule of horses not being allowed in giveaways to later be sold to the winners for 500e was caused by a different issue, like perhaps what minkthepink said below:

minkthepink wrote:

An example of trafficking is when you sell someone several horses in exchange for them selling you one very good one - all at , say 500e. Or you might sell a lot of low value horses for much more than their value in order to transfer equus or passes from one account to another.


If this behaviour is considered to be trafficking then sure, that's against the rules, I have no objection to that. But can't Howrse consider adding a new feature or rule that will still allow giveaways to have horses as prizes? The issues minkthepink stated don't apply to giveaways, and also nobody has ever been scammed in a giveaway - it's either you win nothing, or you win a prize if you get lucky, and this is the mutual agreement that is agreed upon by all giveaway hosts and their participants. I really believe that the playerbase would be at least a bit happier if Howrse could fix this part of the game, as giveaways have been a tradition for such a long time and nobody apart from the Howrse team seems to have had a problem with them.

Sorry for my ramble, didn't mean for my post to get this long!
blueeclover
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