[Info] Cross breeders

Finally a post just for us cross breeders. The purpose of this topic is for cross breeders to have a place to discuss their crossbreeding programs and to share crossbreeding secrets and advice with others who may be interested in giving crossbreeding a try. Feel free to talk about your crossbreeding programs and your achievements and failures in crossbreeding.
Please remember to follow the rules of the forum and be informative and helpful. default smiley :-))

*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*

Reminder to all.

Please do not advertise sales or items wanted in this topic. I can turn a blind eye to the covers being offered (as long as they are not blatant advertisements) because we are, after all, trying to help each other progress and there is no filter on public covers for searching for crosses, but items sales and items wanted do not belong in any of the public forums and we have a sales forum for horse sales so please, lets keep our topic clean of the ads.

Thanks everyone

*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*


There are reasons for rules and everyone is expected to follow them. There will be no posting of advertisements in this topic and everyone is expected to be respectful. Any disrespect towards fellow players or moderators will not be tolerated. Anyone posting advertisements will receive a forum ban without prior warning. If breaking of rules continues to take place in this topic I will delete it.

Thank you
zepharo

*)*)*)

Edit by pixiesbite

If anyone has personal issues with another player, or needs something back from another player(items/passes), other than covers/fills-please take it to private pms...anymore posting here will mean an instant forum ban without a warning.

Edit by pixiesbite

A reminder that this is not the place for trading/buying/selling BMI, horses or advertising or asking for someone to train your horse.
If any of these things occur, you will be forum banned without prior warning.
 
zepharo
  • Posted messages: 11,579
  • Karma: 10 points
Go to page:
Yes, I think on my project it's unlikely I'd ever actually get a Grand Prix winner on my own. Because I'm just not going to keep up with the GP race. And if I cross to higher GP to get back in the GP race, then I lose the profile I'm working on.

I think I would need a 'team' to breed my crossbred stock up in GP to actually get there. But it would be good to have a line that I know could do it if only... LOL.
RowanGreen
  • Posted messages: 3,579
  • Karma: 10 points
RowanGreen wrote:

Yes, I think on my project it's unlikely I'd ever actually get a Grand Prix winner on my own. Because I'm just not going to keep up with the GP race. And if I cross to higher GP to get back in the GP race, then I lose the profile I'm working on.

I think I would need a 'team' to breed my crossbred stock up in GP to actually get there. But it would be good to have a line that I know could do it if only... LOL.

I think that's how a cross won the....was it barrels? some years back. The top teams of two different breeds got together and bred a cross with their highest GP. KWPN x Selles do great in KWPN only rosettes for the reasons you mentioned, and the available public GP is high enough for us to do that pretty readily.

Grand Prix level GP is another matter, and I don't really have the patience to breed the generations it would take to get there myself. It's definitely doable, and I probably have the APs for it, just not the patiencedefault smiley (lol)

I think I had a cross that once placed in the top 100 (like it literally just made it within the top 100, probably 95th or something) for reining. I think it was this one, because it's a Lipizzan. I stalked the sales and covers for days hoping for high GP Lip to sneak in I could use.
Legacy Ann
  • Posted messages: 22,547
  • Karma: 10 points
OK, too interesting a discussion not to discuss...

It's reining I'm working on (I have mentioned it before in this thread!)

It's interesting, as Lippizaners don't actually have a good profile for the reining prix. Reining is gallop/dressage/stamina and Lips are dressage/gallop/stamina, meaning they are 'targeted' and theoretically would be better at general comps rather than rosettes and the prix. But if you look at the other breeds that have those three top skills, none of them have gallop top, and the others are actually worse.

So, the only way to cross to get more gallop is to use breeds that don't have those top three skills. Most of my breeding hasn't used Lippizaners. I've had horses close, but not in, the top 100 in the prix, and have won a few rosettes with them.

But recently I've realised that the problem is getting the unwanted skills low, as much as getting the wanted ones high. A lot of my reiners are mostly TB. But that tends to bring in too much speed. Vanners kill the speed, but give too much jump. Lusitanos keep the gallop and dressage high, but also raise the trot. Etc... If you look at the balance between the three wanted skills and the three you don't want, Lips might have the wanted ones in the wrong order but they do have a hard to beat balance between the wanted and not wanted skills.

Recently I have been looking at producing a Lippizaner dominant cross with a better profile: in real life I'm fond of Lips, having been to Lippica a couple of times. But it is really hard to get high GP Lip covers. I've noticed the Western teams tend to keep a much bigger gap with the release level: in classical you can usually buy an entire horse within a couple of hundred of top gp (within a few points with Selles last time I looked). But in Western you are lucky if you find one within a thousand! Which I think is rather mean of them... and makes me want to beat them even more! But it also means that any starter cross is likely to be lower in GP. And that the generations needed to raise the GP would also allow the profile to be improved...

Not likely to actually happen, since I'm not someone who blups 50 a day! But it would still be fun to get the starter cross right and work on improving. Who knows, maybe once I've got that I'll get the chance to work on the GP at some point!
RowanGreen
  • Posted messages: 3,579
  • Karma: 10 points
What are ways i can improve both skill and GP on a cross im having a really hard time with this default smiley (n)default smiley (n)
seyennah33
  • Posted messages: 23
  • Karma: 10 points
seyennah33 wrote:

What are ways i can improve both skill and GP on a cross im having a really hard time with this default smiley (n)default smiley (n)


GP: the easiest way is to cross to a horse with higher GP! If you are using two horses with the same GP at the top end of current GP, then you can get 5-10 points GP rise at most per generation I think

Skills: inborn skills are increased if the parents are 100% blupped and you use an Aphrodite's Tears. You get the skills from GP via training: rides, skill training and doing competitions. You can get additional skills from foal games and doing mission up to 25 years of age. You can increase the number of missions a horse can do in it's life by giving it a water of youth and pieces of cloud.

Hope that helps! If not it might help if you posted the horses and what you are wanting to do with them.
RowanGreen
  • Posted messages: 3,579
  • Karma: 10 points
RowanGreen wrote:

It's interesting, as Lippizaners don't actually have a good profile for the reining prix. Reining is gallop/dressage/stamina and Lips are dressage/gallop/stamina, meaning they are 'targeted' and theoretically would be better at general comps rather than rosettes and the prix. But if you look at the other breeds that have those three top skills, none of them have gallop top, and the others are actually worse.
That is interesting, and not something I've paid attention to before. With public GP so low for Lippis, it seems like something you could take a advantage of as a crossbreeder, but I think I've run into the same issue for reining that other breeds end up tanking the dressage that the Lippis are so good at.

If the weighting is still the same, the main skill counts for 45%, and the second skill is usually 30%. I don't math well, so I wonder how much you could sacrifice in either area to still get good results. Generally I just try to breed a foal that will have a higher skill than the horses currently at the top of the rankings, but that won't exactly work in this casedefault smiley (lol)

As a suggestion, I've tried looking at Marwaris for reining crosses before because of their higher gallop. However, their dressage is terrible compared to the Lippis, so you'll probably need to add a 3rd or even 4th breed in there to get the stats you want.
Legacy Ann
  • Posted messages: 22,547
  • Karma: 10 points
I'm looking to increase the gallop in my mare Repercussions, anyone got any idea how (what to breed her with)? She's currently 50/50 PSHxTB, the PSH brought up the speed & dressage but also brought down the gallop and i'd sort of like an in between... i'd breed a 75/25 TBxPSH but I feel that's slightly unimaginative.....
I4Horses
  • Posted messages: 489
  • Karma: 10 points
If anyone with a Shagya could please fill this comp, I'd appreciate it!

Please Fill!
MoonRider1691
  • Posted messages: 13,331
  • Karma: 10 points
Legacy Ann wrote:

As a suggestion, I've tried looking at Marwaris for reining crosses before because of their higher gallop. However, their dressage is terrible compared to the Lippis, so you'll probably need to add a 3rd or even 4th breed in there to get the stats you want.


Bit slow answering... Yes, I have Marwaris in the mix! The low dressage seems like a good way to get closer to the right profile if you cross them with a lippi. And I have had some good results. But really it would be even better to keep the dressage, and gain the percentages for gallop off unwanted skills...

Here's my current best reiner. He got 141st in the Grand Prix last week and I've had him a few weeks. No rosettes.. he'd probably have more chance at them if he was TB dominant!

Snowbird
RowanGreen
  • Posted messages: 3,579
  • Karma: 10 points
RowanGreen wrote:

Bit slow answering... Yes, I have Marwaris in the mix! The low dressage seems like a good way to get closer to the right profile if you cross them with a lippi. And I have had some good results. But really it would be even better to keep the dressage, and gain the percentages for gallop off unwanted skills...

Here's my current best reiner. He got 141st in the Grand Prix last week and I've had him a few weeks. No rosettes.. he'd probably have more chance at them if he was TB dominant!

Snowbird
Oh, nice job!
I did some work one day, and came up with a ridiculously complicated cross that I think would get around 2872 in stamina, 2635 in dressage and 3254 in gallop genetics. That would be if you took a [(Mustang/TB x GV/Marwari) x (that same 4way x GV or Mar/TB)]. That's provided I didn't break my spreadsheet during those calculations (with all the copy/pasting, I've accidentally nixed formulas so the cell wasn't actually calculating anything).

A Marwari/TB alone gets insane gallop compared to the Lippi, but the dressage is 1000 points behind, while stamina is about 200, so I'm not sure if the +400 points in the gallop is enough to overthrow a purebred Lippi. The Frankenstein cross above isn't quite as high in gallop as the Mar/TB, but it has more dressage and stamina, so I dunno which would be better.
Legacy Ann
  • Posted messages: 22,547
  • Karma: 10 points
Interesting! Do you think you will do that any time soon? Would be interesting to see! I think I decided against Mustangs because of the high speed.
RowanGreen
  • Posted messages: 3,579
  • Karma: 10 points
Well, it looks like the Mustang GP I used in my calculations was near the top of the rankings, and those in the sales/covers don't go near that mark, so I had to nix Frankenstein. However, I decided to compare a Mar/TB against a GV/TB. The first has higher gallop, while the second cross' gallop is about 400 GP lower, but 400 better in both stamina and dressage.

If I can get the purebreds blupped and bred, then get the foals skilled, I'll enter them in the Prix tomorrow to see how they do. If I'm really energetic, I'll breed their foals together and enter that one too.
Legacy Ann
  • Posted messages: 22,547
  • Karma: 10 points
Good luck! I have so many crosses I'd like to get done, but also things I really should be getting on with in real life!
RowanGreen
  • Posted messages: 3,579
  • Karma: 10 points
Here are the results of my skill placement in relation to calculations experiement. All 3 were entered into the reining prix.

Black Shadows, a Tb/Mar cross, was the gallop monster. Stamina= 3142, dressage=3138, and gallop skills=4912. He placed 94th

Cast Iron, a GV/TB cross, was better in stamina and dressage. Stamina=3658, dressage 3703 and gallop=4333. He got 90th.

Bluetonium was a cross between the two horses above (their twins rather, because I had to geld these two), and was a balance between the other two. Stamina=3401, dressage=3438, and gallop was 4625. He got 88th.

I wish I could have gotten higher dressage in there, but getting that brought the other two skis down quite a bit.
Legacy Ann
  • Posted messages: 22,547
  • Karma: 10 points
This is an old crossbred that won the Prix.
https://www.howrse.com/elevage/fiche/?id=41602785
Gouldilox
  • Posted messages: 4,371
  • Karma: 10 points
I actually have a few more of the same kind of cross that have placed in the top ten of the Reining Prix.

I think there were some crossbreds that won the Barrel Racing Prix, too. I would really have to look hard to find them.
Gouldilox
  • Posted messages: 4,371
  • Karma: 10 points
Gouldilox wrote:

https://www.howrse.com/elevage/fiche/?id=41602785
Oh, it was a Quarter Horse cross! I knew a cross had won one at least one of the western Prixs, but I couldn't remember the breed. Yes, I'm pretty sure there was a barrel cross winner too, but I can't remember the mix for that one either.
Legacy Ann
  • Posted messages: 22,547
  • Karma: 10 points
Hello, I am somewhat new to the crossbreeding side of Howrse. I dabbled in it years ago, but now I am seeking to complete some projects involving high skill levels and 'monster' crossbreds (I might have the idea of skillors, not sure). I was wondering if, breeding wise, it's simply a number game (meaning a gypsy bred to a thoroughbred could create a foal with high stamina AND gallop) or if I would still have to worry about the dominant breed (meaning the foal would have high stamina and higher gallop but not as high as if I were to breed a purebred thoroughbred). Hope this makes sense.

My first project is to create a gypsy x mustang x thoroughbred x paso x selle x lust cross that will produce foals with the highest skills in the game, all in one horse, and then create a breeding line off that.

My second and a half project is to get breed(s) with the lowest skill in the game for a certain skill (say, gallop) and create a line that is bred for gallop competitions (and wins). Then I would also grab a breed with the lowest skills in the game overall and improve that.
Elendriel
  • Posted messages: 421
  • Karma: 10 points
  • Seniority: 288 days
Elendriel wrote:

I was wondering if, breeding wise, it's simply a number game (meaning a gypsy bred to a thoroughbred could create a foal with high stamina AND gallop) or if I would still have to worry about the dominant breed (meaning the foal would have high stamina and higher gallop but not as high as if I were to breed a purebred thoroughbred). Hope this makes sense.
it's just about the numbers. You don't receive an actual GP penalty or anything because the horse is crossbred, but a GV/TB cross won't have as high gallop as a purebred TB. It'll be an average of the two. The foal's stats will roughly be an average of the parents. "Roughly" because there is a +- random factor involved, and you also get a larger GP gain the further away you are from the top GP.

I have a very generic spreadsheet I do my calculations on. This is what I typically use for a regular 50/50 and a 4-way, but I'll set up more cells further down if I'm getting more breeds involved.
Click to display
Legacy Ann
  • Posted messages: 22,547
  • Karma: 10 points
Hey guys! I'm looking to crossbreed my TB mare with either a Marwari or Paint stallion with a GP above 14000. The stallion doesn't have to be purebred of course. I will pay any price. If anyone has one that could reserve me a covering I would appreciate it very much. Thank you!
gαℓα∂яιєℓ
  • Posted messages: 41
  • Karma: 10 points
  • Seniority: 308 days
[https://www.howrse.com/elevage/fiche/?id=60723881]This is my first attempt[/url] at cross breeding. This filly is meant for Paso dressage. Mom wasn't high GP or BLUP because I wasn't sure how it would turn out. Any thoughts or advice?
CruisinAround
  • Posted messages: 9
  • Karma: 10 points
  • Seniority: 45 days
CruisinAround
  • Posted messages: 9
  • Karma: 10 points
  • Seniority: 45 days
Hello everyone default smiley :d I'm back for a brief period from a very long break and took it upon myself to pick up a Selle foal from sales to blup for funsies. What kind of crosses do you guys like?

I always preferred western, but I like anything that can hit the comp boards!
megawifey
  • Posted messages: 7,151
  • Karma: 10 points
megawifey wrote:

Hello everyone default smiley :d I'm back for a brief period from a very long break and took it upon myself to pick up a Selle foal from sales to blup for funsies. What kind of crosses do you guys like?

I always preferred western, but I like anything that can hit the comp boards!

GV and selle crosses do pretty good from what I've seen.
I personally own the 2nd and 3rd place horses won by a selle in western comps, they also rank 1st and 4th in Selle stamina as well. They are Selle, Arab, Fjord, Gv crosses.
Edenm
  • Posted messages: 136
  • Karma: 10 points
megawifey wrote:

What kind of crosses do you guys like?


Morgan crosses.....I have a Morgan addiction.
MoonRider1691
  • Posted messages: 13,331
  • Karma: 10 points
Go to page: